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Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Charity] #161795
02/14/14 01:22 PM
02/14/14 01:22 PM
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Charity  Offline
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At the seventh trumpet or third woe, probation closes, the Lord reigns and rewards his prophets and saints and the the temple in heaven is opened. Ellen White has interpreted the opening of the temple in heaven in two ways: 1) as applying to the opening of the Most Holy Place in 1844, and 2) as applying to the future: Here is a statement where she applies the seventh trumpet to the future:
Quote:

Not long hence they [faithful senior ministers] will receive their reward. Writing of the last days, John says: "The nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." {20MR 221.3}

When God's temple in heaven is opened, what a triumphant time that will be for all who have been faithful and true. In the temple will be seen the ark of the testament in which were placed the two tables of stone, on which are written God's law. These tables of stone will be brought forth from their hiding place, and on them will be seen the ten commandments engraved by the finger of God. These tables of stone now lying in the ark of the testament will be a convincing testimony to the truth and binding claims of God's law. {20MR 221.4}

From every nation, kindred, tongue, and people is to be gathered out a people who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. This is the work to be accomplished in these last days. Since Satan's rebellion in heaven against the commandments of God, he has kept up a continual warfare against these commandments, and he will continue to carry on his work relentlessly to the end. To counteract the effects of the enemy, the Lord desires His servants who have grown gray in the advocacy of truth, to stand faithful and true, bearing their testimony in favor of the law. {20MR 221.5}

Notice the progression of thought. She places the reward in the future but in the last paragraph above she also applies the opening of God's temple to the present saying that those who have grown gray in the advocacy of the truth are to continue bearing their testimony in favor of the law. This is similar to her treatment of the seven last plagues: She applies the warfare of the sixth and seventh plagues, Armageddon, to her day so they span the entire period from her day to the end.

For interest sake here is a similar statement to the one above applying the opening of the temple to the third angel's message. This one can be also be applied to both the past and the future, but more to the future because the mark of the beast is still future:
Quote:

In the Revelation, John says, "The temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament." Revelation 11:19. John saw in vision the Lord's people looking for His coming and searching for truth. As the temple of God was opened unto His people, the light of the law of God, which was in the ark, shone forth. Those who receive this light are brought to view in the proclamation of the third angel's message. This angel is seen flying in the midst of heaven, "saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God. {4BC 1152.4, 5.}

Here are two more similar statements:
Quote:

As the ministration of Jesus closed in the holy place, and He passed into the holiest, and stood before the ark containing the law of God, He sent another mighty angel with a third message to the world. A parchment was placed in the angel's hand, and as he descended to the earth in power and majesty, he proclaimed a fearful warning, with the most terrible threatening ever borne to man. This message was designed to put the children of God upon their guard, by showing them the hour of temptation and anguish that was before them. Said the angel, "They will be brought into close combat with the beast and his image. Their only hope of eternal life is to remain steadfast. {EW 254.1}

Just prior to the great day of God, a message is sent forth to warn the people to come back to their allegiance to the law of God which antichrist has broken down. (Antichrist is depicted in Revelation by the Beast, the Image Beast and the harlot, Babylon.) By precept and example, attention must be called to the breach in the law. I was shown that the third angel, proclaiming the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, represents the people who receive this message and raise the voice of warning to the world, to keep the commandments of God as the apple of the eye, and that in response to this warning many would embrace the Sabbath of the Lord. {1T 76.1}

Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Charity] #161798
02/14/14 01:34 PM
02/14/14 01:34 PM
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Charity  Offline
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I will share some comments below on the future application of the seals but before moving on, let me share just one more quote from Ellen White on the express form of divine wrath that we'll witnesses in the near future:
Quote:
Avarice and sensuality prevail. Men cherish the attributes of the first great deceiver. They have accepted him as God, and have become imbued with his spirit. {6T 14.4}

But the cloud of judicial wrath hangs over them, containing the elements that destroyed Sodom. In his visions of things to come the prophet John beheld this scene. This demon worship was revealed to him, and it seemed to him as if the whole world were standing on the brink of perdition. But as he looked with intense interest he beheld the company of God's commandment-keeping people. They had upon their foreheads the seal of the living God.{6T 15}

In the bolded sentence above is Ellen White using only an analogy to Sodom or is her statement literal. Our preference is for a literal interpretation where the context allows. Will God really do this? Compare this statement to the first four trumpets that portray the fire and brimstone of volcanic activity. This statement adds information on the moral declension at the time that demon worship disguised as Christian and new age spiritualism along with less disguised occultic pagan practices become nearly universal and bring on the world the wrath of God.

What do you think? Feel free to comment and critique this and the last several of my posts.

Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Charity] #161865
02/15/14 11:16 AM
02/15/14 11:16 AM
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Charity  Offline
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Historically, Adventists have taught that the first six trumpets were judgments on Rome, the first four on Pagan Rome and the last two on Papal Rome and that we're living during the final, seventh trumpet. The view I've proposed above is that the trumpets are future judgments on false religion generally but especially on Babylon, the final world empire which will be a corrupt alliance of church and state.

The historic Adventist view of the seals is that the first six represent the history of the church from the time of Pentecost up to today and that we're living during in the latter part of the sixth. Below, the view I'll propose is that 1) the seals began in 1844 with the proclamation of the third angel, that 2) we're living during the first seal and 3) that the first is further unsealed when the latter rain is poured out, that 4) the seals and the thunders parallel each other and that 5) we should study them carefully but should also bear in mind that we cannot understand them fully at this point: both are successively understood as they are opened.

Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Charity] #161869
02/15/14 02:54 PM
02/15/14 02:54 PM
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Godsloveandlaw  Offline
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"The historic Adventist view of the seals is that the first six represent the history of the church from the time of Pentecost up to today and that we're living during in the latter part of the sixth. Below, the view I'll propose is that 1) the seals began in 1844 with the proclamation of the third angel, that 2) we're living during the first seal and 3) that the first is further unsealed when the latter rain is poured out, that 4) the seals and the thunders parallel each other and that 5) we should study them carefully but should also bear in mind that we cannot understand them fully at this point: both are successively understood as they are opened."

I would agree that we "should study them carefully". The understanding of the seals are quite basic when we look at the "whole" picture.

As to the book sealed with seven seals, the only book that "no man in heaven, nor in earth...was able to open...neither to look thereon," save the Lion of the tribe of Judah, it unquestionably is the book in which the deeds of mankind are chronicled, as the seals themselves disclose.

This fact Inspiration again confirms: "Thus the Jewish leaders made their choice. Their decision was registered in the book which John saw in the hand of Him that sat upon the throne, the book which no man could open. In all its vindictiveness this decision will appear before them in the day when this book is unsealed by the Lion of the tribe of Judah." -- Christ's Object Lessons, p. 294.

The seals contain the history of the world and the deeds of all mankind. The opening of the book,logically, is the Judicial investigation of the deeds of the "professed" people of God.


Last edited by Godsloveandlaw; 02/15/14 03:06 PM.
Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #161876
02/15/14 03:50 PM
02/15/14 03:50 PM
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Charity  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Godsloveandlaw
The seals contain the history of the world and the deeds of all mankind. The opening of the book,logically, is the Judicial investigation of the deeds of the "professed" people of God.


Yes, I completely agree. It's an awesome thought. You know, Ellen White recommends contemplating these solemn scenes.

Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Charity] #161877
02/15/14 03:55 PM
02/15/14 03:55 PM
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Charity  Offline
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The statement below recently caught my attention. It ties the mighty angel of Revelation 10 to the third angels message. Some of you may recall that the mighty angel is a symbol of the early Advent movement prior to the great disappointment. This statement gives is a new application saying it applies especially post 1844, not to the first and second angels' messages but to the third. It's all the more interesting because it's from Early Writings and so from the mid 1800's until today we've had this information available to us.
Quote:

As the ministration of Jesus closed in the holy place, and He passed into the holiest, and stood before the ark containing the law of God, He sent another mighty angel with a third message to the world. A parchment was placed in the angel's hand, and as he descended to the earth in power and majesty, he proclaimed a fearful warning, with the most terrible threatening ever borne to man. This message was designed to put the children of God upon their guard, by showing them the hour of temptation and anguish that was before them. Said the angel, "They will be brought into close combat with the beast and his image. Their only hope of eternal life is to remain steadfast. {EW 254.1}


Was the connection she made between the mighty angel of Revelation 10 and the third angel unintended? Why would the Lord depict the third angel with a parchment or writing in his hand? Isn't this a divine invitation to compare the third angel of Revelation 14 with the mighty angel holding a small book of Revelation 10 and with the passing of the scroll from the Father to the Son in Revelation 5 and the seating of Heaven's court and opening of the books in Daniel 7 and 8.

Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Charity] #161881
02/15/14 04:18 PM
02/15/14 04:18 PM
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Godsloveandlaw  Offline
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Coachella Valley, Cailf.
"the view I'll propose is that 1) the seals began in 1844 with the proclamation of the third angel,.."

First things first, do you agree that your view is incorrect as previously shown?

Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #161885
02/15/14 07:57 PM
02/15/14 07:57 PM
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Charity  Offline
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GLL, I agree that the place where the seals preeminently apply is to that time when the judgment sits and the books are open. For the world that's future from everything I read. That is, it has to be future because the latter rain has not been poured out, the trumpets haven't sounded, the mark of the beast and the warning against receiving it is not given today with a loud cry. But for Adventists, God is measuring us now at the present time and has been measuring His beloved people on the truth of the third angel's message since 1844. We can't afford to put off the great reality of the judgment of the house of God to the future. For us that time is now and has been that way since 1844.

Every passing generation of Adventists since 1844 witnesses against us proving that corporately no generation of Adventists has been found faithful to God. What a tragedy. But thank God for His care for us and for preserving the truth through a faithful remnant down through this period that have held the torch high. Men like ML Andreason and others. Most Adventists are unaware of the debt of gratitude we owe them.

Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Charity] #161888
02/15/14 09:37 PM
02/15/14 09:37 PM
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Godsloveandlaw  Offline
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I think we have to lay a foundation of what the seals represent. I'll post more on this.

Re: Some signs will happen again? [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #162164
02/21/14 10:56 PM
02/21/14 10:56 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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In case you forgot about this, I am reminding you about this. smile
Originally Posted By: Godsloveandlaw
I think we have to lay a foundation of what the seals represent. I'll post more on this.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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