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Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: asygo] #147622
11/28/12 03:02 AM
11/28/12 03:02 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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The portion quoted by Johann is sufficiently incomplete as to render any conclusion about its accuracy impossible. I, for one, do not know the "halachic law." Perhaps it states that a Jewish father must be married to a Jewish woman for her children to be Jews. Consider the case with Ezra.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: asygo] #147626
11/28/12 08:39 AM
11/28/12 08:39 AM
Johann  Offline
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Some years back I was told at a German embassy that today there are two countries in the world where it is primarily the citizenship of the mother which determines the citizenship of the child: Germany and Israel. I was told that the reason for this rule is that it was often impossible to prove who is the father -- before DNA. The news item I quoted indicates this is in accordance with halachic Jewish law. That is why I asked if anyone had discovered any indication this is based on something in the Bible, since the discussion was about the lineage in the tribes of Israel.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Johann] #147635
11/28/12 02:26 PM
11/28/12 02:26 PM
asygo  Offline
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Trying to get this back to ordination...

But to tie up this loose end, I believe that all the genealogies in the Bible list the names of the fathers/sons. Rarely is the mother even mentioned. Hence, Jesus was the son of David, and the priests were the sons of Aaron.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: asygo] #147938
12/04/12 10:31 PM
12/04/12 10:31 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Originally Posted By: asygo
Trying to get this back to ordination...

But to tie up this loose end, I believe that all the genealogies in the Bible list the names of the fathers/sons. Rarely is the mother even mentioned. Hence, Jesus was the son of David, and the priests were the sons of Aaron.

This also even applied to Christ.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Green Cochoa] #161993
02/18/14 01:13 PM
02/18/14 01:13 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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To go along with the verse 2 Chronicles 11:14-15, 1 Kings 13:33-34 describes Jeroboam's sin and that it would be destroyed from off the earth.

I know it doesn't mention women directly, but Jeroboam did consecrate whomever he wanted. This is why the sons of Levi (Heb. 7:5) were run off away from the sanctuary. I'm sure some women would have been included as many pagan religions had female priests. Of course, there were men as well who were not fit to serve in the Temple of God.

Last edited by Alchemy; 02/18/14 01:13 PM.
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Alchemy] #162027
02/18/14 05:57 PM
02/18/14 05:57 PM
asygo  Offline
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That's an assumption based on one paradigm.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Johann] #162342
02/25/14 07:02 PM
02/25/14 07:02 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: Johann
Today a person is a Jew, according to the laws of Israel, if his mother is a Jew.

Quote:
author Wednesday May 16, 2012 01:52author by Saed Bannoura - 1 of International Middle East Media Center Editorial Group Report post

In Haifa District Court on Tuesday the judge ruled that whether a person is an Israeli citizen is determined by whether that person is of Jewish descent, i.e. born to a Jewish mother following halachic law, and not by their place of birth or whether they are by religion Jewish or not.
http://www.imemc.org/article/63500

Is this Scriptural


Consider John Mark (the author of the Gospel by Mark)
"John, whose surname was Mark" Acts 12:12; 12:25; 15:37,

John Mark's mother, Mary, was related to Barnabas, a Levite, and the apostle that travelled with Paul on his first missionary journeys. Col. 4:10, Acts 4:36

Mary had a large home in Jerusalem, which become a central meeting place for the early Christian believers. (Acts 12:12-13)

But who is the father? All we hear about is his mother, his mother's house, his "uncle" who parted from Paul in order to take John Mark with him on missionary trips.

Apparently Mary was a widow, and John Mark's father was a Gentile. John is a Jewish name, Mark or Marcus, is a Roman name.

It's also been noted that "Mark seems to have targeted Roman believers, particularly Gentiles. When employing Aramaic terms, Mark translated them for his readers (3:17; 5:41; 7:11, 34; 10:46; 14:36; 15:22, 34). On the other hand, in some places he used Latin expressions instead of their Greek equivalents (5:9; 6:27; 12:15, 42; 15:16, 39). He also reckoned time according to the Roman system (6:48; 13:35) and carefully explained Jewish customs (7:3, 4; 14:12; 15:42)."


So was John Mark considered a Jew or a Gentile?

It appears from the Biblical stories that he was fully accepted in the Jewish circles.




Another interesting comparison is Timothy and Titus.

Timothy had a Jewish mother and a Greek Father.
Acts 16:1 Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

Paul immediately has him circumcised! Acts 16:3 And this allows him full acceptance in Jewish circles.


But Titus has no Jewish mother -- his parents are both Gentiles

Gal. 2:3 But Titus, who was a Greek, was not compelled to be circumcised


So there is some truth to the mother being Jewish meaning her children were given full Jewish recognition as long as they were circumcised.
Whereas a Gentile-- even when a proselyte and adhering to the rituals, wasn't given full Jewish recognition.


.

Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Johann] #162343
02/25/14 07:17 PM
02/25/14 07:17 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: Johann
Language is a strange phenomena, because many of them change continually. When I started in the ministry it was unthinkable to call an Adventist pastor a priest - or the same word that is used for the priests in the Old Testament. Today it has become common in several languages, however, I believe that term is never used for an Adventist pastor in English nor in German.

At least that is an indication we do not consider an Adventist pastor as a priest in the old sacrificial system nor in the Roman Catholic system.


This is another issue that I find really confusing in this controversial subject.
Why are anti WO always referring to the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood of Israel?

It is the Catholic church that has continued the earthly sanctuary system and rejected the heavenly sanctuary message.

They continued the earthly priest being the one people go to when they want forgiveness. They continued the "daily sacrifice" through the "recreation" of Christ being offered in a wafer (daily mass).

An Adventist pastor is NEVER to be called "priest" or "father" or "His holiness" . That rejection of those titles was standard Adventist teaching years ago.

Yet, now all these arguments want to lift the Adventist pastor up as being priests of the church? Why?

Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Green Cochoa] #162344
02/25/14 08:18 PM
02/25/14 08:18 PM
Johann  Offline
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Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Everything has been done to prepare the way for us all to accept the doctrines of the Vatican.

Just see how many today make their acceptance of the papal priesthood in Adventism as a mark of their private sanctification.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: "Ordination" from strictly the Biblical perspective [Re: Green Cochoa] #162346
02/25/14 08:28 PM
02/25/14 08:28 PM
Johann  Offline
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Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Luke is the only gentile Gospel writer and he also wrote Acts as a close follower of Paul.

When looking for male only disciples of Jesus Christ it is easiest when you read the Jewish Gospel writers.

Luke is the one who refers much more to the female disciples of Jesus Christ and female church leaders. Is Luke (including Acts) less inspired than other parts of the Bible? Why was he chosen to write such a substantial part of the New Testament?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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