To minister yes, to prophesy yes, to govern NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

So you think one text in scripture superceeds others?

This text from Joel is in perfect harmony with Paul's writings if you are led by the Spirit, ****** STAFF EDIT ******

Mrs White received the promise of Joel and her husband James was great man who governed his family in righteousenss, and his wife SUBMITTED to his authority completely unless he was not being guided by the spirit of truth. Then and only then would Mrs White rebuke her husband in the authority of God as a prophet.

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What number are you talking about?

Did you realize that in Paul's letters he personally addresses many women by name ?

of the 28 people Paul greeted in Romans 16, ten of them were women and he commended their ministries more often than he commend men in that list. These commendations may indicate his sensitivity to the opposition women undoubtedly faced for their ministry and are remarkable, given the prejudice against women’s ministry that existed in Paul’s culture.





I told you before that I am not pushing for women to be ordained as ministers, because I see it is a "power struggle" to be president, not just to minister within the church.

But many of these arguments that antiWO people put forth ARE NOT SCRIPTURAL, but rather have been the twisting of scripture in order to subject and subdue women.

Many of the arguments are based on TRADITION -- a tradition, not on God's will or "order" at all.




I think people are reading their writings incorrectly.
The apostles were way ahead of their culture in granting women roles within the church.

Jesus broke quite a few "traditional rules" in His relationships with women, and elevating them as equally worthy to enter into conversation with Himself and to sit at his feet (a position disciples would take).

Women travelled with Jesus, just like the disciples did. Something that was NOT common in their culture. No they weren't the specially elected 12, but they were still disciples travelling with Him as He went about His ministry.

Some of them are also named,
Mary called Magdalene, Joanna the wife of Chuza, Susanna, and many others (Luke 8:2,3)





Of course he was inspired, but people have tended to wrest his sayings to their own understanding.


Like the verse:
"Everything is lawful for me.... in 1 Corinthians 6:12 and the first part of verse 13.

How often have I heard that verse recited by someone who thinks that it really doesn't matter what we do as long as it is in moderation and it doesn't control us?
BUT that understanding is in contradiction to what Paul said in other verses.
It wasn't until I realized Paul was quoting and refuting gnostic teachings in those verses that it all started making perfect sense. Before it seemed like Paul was constantly contradicting himself.

The same with 1 Cor. 14 and the command uttered THREE TIMES in those verses, that women must be silent in church, must not speak, its a shame for them to speak. There's no way one can read those verses as the inspired command and still allow any woman to voice anything in church.
Yet, Paul in other verses allows women to speak in church.

It only makes sense that he is rejecting that saying which OTHERS were saying. OTHERS were saying "women must be silent in church". Paul quotes their impassioned desire to silence all women and counters it by writing, "What? -- Did the Word of God come only to you [men]?



What?
No --
Reread 1 Timothy 5

Paul is talking about the church financially SUPPORTING widows.
That means -- giving them money with which to live. (Compare with Acts 6:1)

According to his advice --Widows who have relatives should not be supported by the church, their relatives should be providing for them.
Basically Paul is telling families to take care of their own relatives. Younger widows are to go back to their parents and help them or to marry and raise a family so they have something to do and wouldn't be living in idle ease (on church money) and getting into trouble.

Only truly destitute widows -- older widows who have proven their dedication to serving the Lord, and have no one else to support them, should be placed on the church list for financial assistance.

MY BIBLE says women are to be submissive to their OWN husbands.
No where does my bible say women are to be in subjection to all other men.
Women are no more under subjection to ecclesiastical leaders than men are.




In Cor. 11:3 do you see the word "THE" the man -- "the woman" singular. One man, one woman -- as in husband and wife.
It's not saying ALL men in the church.
And Eph. plainly says "OWN" husband, not all men.

Husbands are to love and protect their wives, and wives are to respect and listen to their husbands. The husband is the head in his family.

BOTH husband and wife are to respect and listen to their pastor, to support and encourage him, but they are not to be IN SUBJECTION to the pastor.
The text says CHRIST is the head of the church. We are to be in subjection to Him.

This idea of subjection to ecclesiastical figure heads that call themselves "father", is a purely Catholic doctrine -- this being in subjection to or (ruled over) by the men in ecclesiastical leadership positions. In fact I was just browsing through a book earlier this week written by a Catholic priest on ecumenical unity. One of his points -- people follow their pastor so get the pastors of the various churches on board and the sheep will follow. Right into the wolf's den, I might add.

The local church is to be run by the board members composed of men and women praying together and deciding on church issues together, not by a kingly power that thinks to subject the membership under himself.

I have argued the same point! There are more than just jsot that take issue with this on MSABOL. The whole issue of clergy and laity is at issue. See:
http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=163316#Post163316

This is what I've seen as well.
Whether or not women are actually ordained isn't my concerned, we have plenty of freedom now to witness for the Lord.

But the elevation of the clergy to an authority to rule over the church is redefining the role of the pastor to match the role of the priest in the Catholic church.

"Eve was told of the sorrow and pain that must be her portion. “Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” God had made her the equal of Adam. But sin brought discord, and now their union could be maintained and harmony preserved only by submission on the part of one or the other. Eve had been the first in transgression. By her solicitation Adam sinned, and she was now placed in subjection to her husband. Man’s abuse of the supremacy thus given him has too often rendered the lot of woman bitter and her life a burden. {EP 27.4}

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"Every family is a church, over which the parents preside. The first consideration of the parents should be to work for the salvation of their children. When the father (priest) and mother (teacher) as priest and teacher of the family take their position fully on the side of Christ, a good influence will be exerted in the home. And this sanctified influence will be felt in the church and will be recognized by every believer. Because of the great lack of piety and sanctification in the home, the work of God is greatly hindered. No man can bring into the church an influence that he does not exert in his home life and in his business relations.3 {CG 549.1}

"Morning and evening the father, as priest of the household, should confess to God the sins committed by himself and his children through the day. Those sins which have come to his knowledge and also those which are secret, of which God’s eye alone has taken cognizance, should be confessed. This rule of action, zealously carried out by the father when he is present or by the mother when he is absent, will result in blessings to the family.5 {AH 212.1}

"Those who have too little courage to reprove wrong, or who through indolence or lack of interest make no earnest effort to purify the family or the church of God, are held accountable for the evil that may result from their neglect of duty. We are just as responsible for evils that we might have checked in others by exercise of parental or pastoral authority, as if the acts had been our own.10 {CG 235.4}

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Dedication, you have provided food for thought. Well done.

Paul has been quoted as calling for Deacons and Elders to be a man of one wife, etc... So, Paul was aware that women should never be considered a Priest. Consequently, not a preacher of the Gospel. 1 Cor. 9:13-14.

Paul was also aware of what he said in 1 Cor. 11:1-16 when he simply stated that "man is head of the woman" in the "churches of God".

As far as deaconess is concerned; a deaconess is under the supervision of pastors and elders and therefore is ordained to a certain ministry. A deaconess is not the same as a Pastor or Elder! All these efforts to "universalize" all these positions is grossly unBiblical.