The truth is - Jesus commanded killing criminals and combatants. You have not confessed this truth. You argue as if it is not true. You also argue as if it was the Jews' fault Jesus commanded killing criminals and combatants (they demanded it so He commanded it). You cannot have it both ways. Either Jesus did or did not command killing criminals and combatants. Again, I doubt you will ever state your belief plainly. Most likely you will continue to avoid the question and emphasize the fact Jesus never wanted the Jews to divorce, or to have a king, or your favorite idea - He never wanted them to fight. The other thing you believe, which I find offensive, is you believe Jesus commanded the Jews to sin (by commanding them to kill criminals and combatants).

God permitted divorce - adultery! Why? Hardness of heart. Blindness to the truth.

My beliefs are very plain. No killing. No using of the sword for any reason. God never wanted fighting. EGW is very clear, So terribly blinded had they become by transgression. The Lord had never commanded them to "go up and fight." It was not His purpose that they should gain the land by warfare, but by strict obedience to His commands. {PP 392.3}

I think you believe that the children of Israel reflect the best example of a theocracy. NO. It was not a theocracy. The best example we have is Jesus. Have you seen Jesus? If so, you have seen the truth, what God is.

So you really think that if they weren't under Roman rule and they were at liberty, that in context of what Jesus was saying, they really should pluck eye for eye and tooth for tooth.


That is REALLY sad!


And, that is the spirit of the coming reinstating of religious persecution because they/you believe God is commanding this.

You believe the same thing excepting you call it not sin. Why? Because you don't know the difference between right and wrong.

Kland, it's a good thing you weren't a Jew living under the theocracy of Jesus. I have no doubt you have would disobeyed the command to kill criminals and combatants.

And yet Jesus commanded killing criminals and combatants. Like Kland, I have no doubt you would have disobeyed Jesus' command and would have incurred His wrath.

And God gave commands for divorce - adultery. If you start with the wrong premise, you conclusions will be wrong...

The premise is biblical - Jesus commanded killing criminals and combatants. Why He commanded it is the question. But you treat it as if He didn't command it. You believe Jesus commanded the Jews to sin by commanding them to kill.

Your premise is that God wanted the people for fight in the first place. This is wrong, so the rest of the understanding is wrong. Why is it so hard for you to see the same situation with divorce?

Note - by beholding, you become changed. We are seeing this concept of God playing out right now on MSABOL between you and jsot.

Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! Truth came forth from the lips of Jesus, uncorrupted with human philosophy. His words were from heaven, such as mortal lips had never spoken nor mortal ears ever heard. His heart was an altar on which burned the flames of infinite love. Goodness, mercy, and love were enthroned in the breast of the Son of God. He set up his tabernacle in the midst of our human encampment, pitched his tent by the side of the tents of men, that he might dwell among them and make them familiar with his divine character and love. No one could love Christ and pay homage to him without serving and honoring the infinite God. Those who had an appreciation of the character and mission of Christ, were filled with reverence and awe, as they looked upon him and felt that they were looking upon the temple of the living God. Officers were sent to take the Son of God, that the temple in which God was enshrined might be destroyed. But as they drew near and heard the words of divine wisdom that fell from his lips, they were charmed, and the power and excellence of his instruction so filled their hearts and minds that they forgot the purpose for which they had been sent. Christ revealed himself to their souls. Divinity flashed through humanity, and they returned so filled with this one thought, so charmed with the ideas he had presented, that when the leaders of Israel inquired, "Why have ye not brought him?" they replied, "Never man spake like this man." They had seen that which priests and rulers would not see,--humanity flooded with the light and glory of divinity. Those who would behold this glory would be drawn to love Jesus and to love the Father whom he represented. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. In Christ was arrayed before men the paternal grace and the matchless perfections of the Father. In his prayer just before his crucifixion, he declared, "I have manifested thy name." "I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." When the object of his mission was attained,--the revelation of God to the world,--the Son of God announced that his work was accomplished, and that the character of the Father was made manifest to men. {ST, January 20, 1890 par. 9}

Again, even if we go with your premise, we still end up with the same facts, namely, Jesus commanded killing criminals and combatants. You haven't even acknowledged this fact.

JSOT promising God is going to hurt and destroy me soon is unfortunate. Jesus, I'm sure, feels sad about it - like He felt sad about the disciples wanting to call down fire on people who told Jesus to find lodging elsewhere.