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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16353
10/20/05 12:42 PM
10/20/05 12:42 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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quote:
But I'd urge on everyone the necessity of allowing apparent contraditions in scripture to co-exist and not be too hasty in attempting to immediately harmonize and analyse things until all the data is in.
Mark I agree with you in the above statement to the purpose that man needs to be willing to allow consideration of things other than he sees fit to see (than he thinks they should be). I think that is what you are getting at.
As a result of that however, some of us do share the insights of discoveries in these matters.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16354
10/20/05 01:15 PM
10/20/05 01:15 PM
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Ontario
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quote:
But, in matters of salvation, God decides our destiny. We are not masters of our own destiny. We have a part to play. We work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, we choose who we will serve, who we give our wills to, but, it is God who works in us to will and to do His good pleasure. And He does work in us. Faith without works is dead.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Does this answer, and how?
The problem occurs when the reader does not include himself in the "us" and thinks that the "us" means "them".
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16355
10/20/05 05:22 PM
10/20/05 05:22 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
The problem occurs when the reader does not include himself in the "us" and thinks that the "us" means "them".
Or when the reader excludes somebody else.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16357
10/23/05 03:18 AM
10/23/05 03:18 AM
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Who is/are the 'us'? On this point we will have to disagree apparently. The 'us' are the chosen, and the chosen are the 'few': As Christ said, 'many are called but few are chosen'. The elect are equated in scripture with the chosen and the saints. Would you make the wicked equate with the elect, the saints and the chosen?
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16358
10/23/05 02:40 AM
10/23/05 02:40 AM
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Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Mark, the “we” are his workmanship includes every being, every being was created in Christ Jesus unto good works. This God has from the beginning ordained that “all” should walk in. None have been created unto evil works. None have been ordained to walk in evil.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16359
10/23/05 07:33 AM
10/23/05 07:33 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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The following quote makes clear that Ephesians 1 includes all human beings. quote:
And the word that was spoken to Jesus at the Jordan, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," embraces humanity. God spoke to Jesus as our representative. With all our sins and weaknesses, we are not cast aside as worthless. "He hath made us accepted in the Beloved." Eph. 1:6. The glory that rested upon Christ is a pledge of the love of God for us.
I think a bit of confusion is arising over the word "chosen". When it says that few are chosen, this is not referring to God's act of initially choosing us. In this intial choosing, all are chosen. That is, God has taken the initiative to save every human being. None could be saved without this choosing.
In saying few are chosen, this is referring to the choice of God to accept those who have responded to His initiative. That is, all those who are justified by faith are chosen. Few are chosen, because few decide to respond to God's intiative, which would result in their being justified by faith.
An example would be the ark. God chose to save all those who got on the ark. Many were called, but few were chosen.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16360
01/07/06 05:27 PM
01/07/06 05:27 PM
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Here is a statement from Ellen White I came across supporting the doctrine of the election: quote:
To the believer, Christ is the resurrection and the life. In our Saviour the life that was lost through sin is restored; for He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. He is invested with the right to give immortality. {DA 786.4}
She does not adopt the errors of Calvinism in this statement but she follows the scriptural position on the election and the authority of Christ to ‘quicken whom He will.’
A little-know fact among modern Adventists is that Wm Miller associated himself with a Calvinist Baptist Church as being the closest to his view of Scripture. Like Ellen White, he appears to have steered clear of Calvinism’s doubtful tenets such as ‘irresistible grace’ but unequivocally stated his belief in the doctrine of the election. He left us a summary of his confession of faith dated Sept 5, 1822 in numbered articles.
Article XVIII reads, quote:
“I believe in the doctrine of the election, founded on the will purpose and foreknowledge of God; and that all the elect will be saved in the kingdom of God through sanctification of the Spirit in belief of the truth.” Quoted from Bliss’s biography, Memoirs of Wm Miller, page 77 in the Doctrine of the Sanctuary, page 165.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16361
01/10/06 04:01 AM
01/10/06 04:01 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Just as with the Scriptures, we should consider everything the Spirit of Prophecy has written on a subject, so we don't misread her intentions with a given statement. The Scriptures make clear that God is willing that all should be saved. God wills, or chooses, to save all those who respond to the wooing of His Spirit. This is the consistent teaching of Scripture throughout. Not one will be lost because of some lack on God's part. God does all that He can to save everyone; even Lucifer! Consider the following statement, also from The Desire of Ages: quote:
No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me." None will ever come to Christ, save those who respond to the drawing of the Father's love. But God is drawing all hearts unto Him, and only those who resist His drawing will refuse to come to Christ.(DA 385)
Note the God is drawing all hearts to Himself, and it is only those who resist His drawing that refuse to come. This makes it very clear that it is not God's doing, but man, which leads to his being lost.
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Re: God's election to save vs. the human choice.
#16362
01/09/06 05:01 PM
01/09/06 05:01 PM
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Amen! God draws all of us to accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. Unfortunately, though, God is well aware of the fact that "many are called, but few are chosen." Knowing who will be saved and lost ahead of time, however, does not stop God from exerting His influence to encourage everyone to embrace salvation in Jesus.
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