So what you're saying, MM, is that God exerts a lot of effort on those for whom He knows it will be futile. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any statements from inspiration that supports this point of view, but I'd be interesting in seeing something like this.

I know you asked MM, Tom but at the risk of repeating myself, I'll cite you this one:

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9:22 [What] if God, willing to show [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Romans

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We've been 'circling this mountain long enough.' But when I learned about Miller, I had to share with you all that Adventism's primary founder and best evangalist believed in the doctrine of the election. So here is empirical evidence that belief in the doctrine of the election in no way hampers outreach efforts of the evangalist. We could cite several more examples.

This is not a final test of the doctrine, but it is a point - in keeping with the maxim, 'You'll know them by their fruit'.

Mark, this isn't a good text for this discussion because Paul is discussing something altogether different than we are. Notice how Paul ends his train of thought:

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31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

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Israel failed, not because of divine fiat, but because they did not seek righteousness by faith, which is the only way it can be obtained. In the first part of this thread is quite a bit of material regarding the interpretation of this passage. I cited an article, and also discussed myself the interpretation. One needs to take into account the context to properly interpret these verses.

(How did I do for brief here? )

Better!

The election is always taught in the scripture in the context of divine love, not merely divine fiat. In the first part of Deuteronomy we see the idea repeated several times that God chose Israel because He loved them. It is God choosing them that makes the difference. They needed to respond in faith to that love, that divine choice. Like us, sometimes they did, and sometimes they didn't.

The election doctrine is as prominent in the Old Testament as it is in the writings of Paul and John.

The following quotes establishes the beautiful balance between our part and God's part in the salvation of our souls:

2MCP 691
The Spirit of God does not propose to do our part, either in the willing or the doing. This is the work of the human agent in cooperating with the divine agencies. As soon as we incline our will to harmonize with God's will, the grace of Christ stands to cooperate with the human agent; but it will not be the substitute to do our work independent of our resolving and decidedly acting. Therefore it is not the abundance of light, and evidence piled upon evidence, that will convert the soul it is only the human agent accepting the light, arousing the energies of the will, realizing and acknowledging that which he knows is righteousness and truth, and thus cooperating with the heavenly ministrations appointed to God in the saving of the soul.--Lt 135, 1898. {2MCP 691.3}

MYP 147, 148
While these youth were working out their own salvation, God was working in them to will and to do of His good pleasure. Here are revealed the conditions of success. To make God's grace our own, we must act our part. The Lord does not propose to perform for us either the willing or the doing. His grace is given to work in us to will and to do, but never as a substitute for our effort. Our souls are to be aroused to co-operate. The Holy Spirit works in us, that we may work out our own salvation. This is the practical lesson the Holy Spirit is striving to teach us. "It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." {MYP 147.2}

The Lord will co-operate with all who earnestly strive to be faithful in His service, as He co-operated with Daniel and his three companions. Fine mental qualities and a high tone of moral character are not the result of accident. God gives opportunities; success depends upon the use made of them. The openings of Providence must be quickly discerned and eagerly entered. There are many who might become mighty men, if, like Daniel, they would depend upon God for grace to be overcomers, and for strength and efficiency to do their work. {MYP 147.3}

I do not mean to minimize the role of the human will. But it is equally important in portraying the character of God not to minimize the role of God.

How is it Tom that 'all Israel will be saved'? Only the doctrine of the election can answer that. The election doctrine cannot apply to the visible nation or to the visible church.

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11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

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Ellen White did not give the idea prominence though, likely because it tends to be misconstrued by many people. Maybe I should follow her example.

How does scripture define Israel Tom? You may use different descriptive terms, but at the core of the definition, isn't it true that the people of the true Israel are the elect?

Is there anyone among this spiritual nation that is not elect? any one who obtained his citizenship by his choice of 'nationality' rather than by election? It is true that all of spiritual Israel responds to the call. But Christ has the authority to confer eternal life and citizenship in spiritual Israel according to scripture and Ellen White. There is a difference between a royal perogative, a divine attribute, and co-ercive arbitrariness. One is based on a saving love, the other on self-centredness.