There's a sense in which "predistination" can be applied to either all or just the saved. To predestine is simply to choose ahead of time. God has chosen that those who are Christ's, which are those who choose to have faith in Christ, are those who will be saved. So in this sense only the elect, or saved, are predestined.

In another sense, God is not willing that any should perish, but have a knowledge of the truth. He would have all be saved. So in terms of God's preference, or choice, He would have all be saved. But the only ones who will be accepted (or chosen) are those who have faith in Christ.

The means of salvation is totally chosen by God, or predestined by Him. The opportunity to take part in the salvation is available to all. "Whosoever will may come."

I will try to come back to your point John that the election applies to literal Israel rather than spiritual. Without quoting a text, I'd say that the election of literal Israel is an illustration of the election of spiritual Israel. I'm probably repeating myself.

But I want to switch the focus here for a bit from the election and look at a thought from Martin Luther regarding the will. In 1519 or right around that year he attended his pivotal debate with Dr. Eck and it was at this time that Luther made some sweeping statements regarding the limited role of the human will. His position and the position of the reformation theologians that accompanied him basically was that it is completely the work of God to transform the will. Of itself, the will cannot choose good. I'll try to have a direct quote for you all by tomorrow.

I like the direction you are heading here, Mark.

I'll wait till you expand your post there.

According to D'Aubigne in his History of the Reformation, in July 1517 Luther was invited by Duke George, cousin of Frederick the Wise, to give a Sunday sermon in his chapel. George, like Frederick, was an elector of the emperor and one of the most powerful princes in Germany. Luther spoke, among other things, about the Biblical election and free will. Unfortunately, the Duke was not impressed with Luther's doctrine. Why did Luther choose that topic? D'Aubinge tells us that Luther saw a need to focus more attention on the issue of free will because in his view, it was a false view of this issue that had been a central pillar of the false doctrines of religious philosophy from the days of Aristotle. Luther attributed much of the intellectual darkness of his day and for centuries before to Aristotle whom the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages had idolized. So shortly after returning from his Sunday sermon engagement, Luther set to work to explain the role of the will and produced 99 theses - four more than the famous ones that were nailed to the door of the chapel. These 99 though are more relevant to us today and deserve to be studied. (I was going to quote from the Luther/Eck debate that occurred some months later, but the thesis provide a better overview). Here are a few:


• It is true that man, who has become a corrupt tree, can will or do naught but evil.
• It is false that the will, left to itself, can do good as well as evil; for it is not free, but in bondage.
• It is not in the power of Man’s will to choose or reject whatever is offered to it.
• Man cannot of his own nature will God to be God. He would prefer to be God himself, and that God were not God.
• The excellent, infallible, and sole preparation for grace, is the eternal election and predestination of God.
• It is false to say that if man does all that he can, he removes the obstacles to grace.
• In a word, nature possesses neither a pure reason nor a good will.

Although Luther proclaimed the powerlessness of man, he tempered that position by noting the following in his eighth theses:

• It does not hence follow that the will is naturally depraved, that is to say, that its nature is that of evil itself, as the Manichees have taught.

I hesitated to include the thesis at the fifth bullet because I don't want to be side-tracked right now by Luther's teaching on the election, but after considering it further I thought I would leave it in just to show that Luther saw a close connection between the doctrine of free will and the election. For now though, I'm suggesting we focus on the free will theses. There are more, but let's look at these.

Can the entire 99 be found on any webpage?

/Thomas

I spent 20 minutes trying to find the thesis but wasn’t able to locate them on the web. Here is a link to many of his writings but I don’t think the 99 are there. The 95 are and much more.

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/wittenberg-luther.html

What do you all think of Luther's position? His statements remind me of a few of Ellen White's. One of the prayers she suggested for us is: 'Take my heart for I cannot give it...' Our situation according to her then is very desperate; we cannot even choose to give to God our hearts!

Isn't that similar to this statement by Luther?:

• It is false to say that if man does all that he can, he removes the obstacles to grace.


Both are saying that all we can do is to behave like poor beggars, asking Christ to change us so that we actually want to do what is right. We can't of ourselves choose to do anything good and what is more, we can't of ourselves choose to even give our hearts to God. We can only give our consent to God to be changed. So, from start to finish, our salvation is a work of grace.

Quote:

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No outward observances can take the place of simple faith and entire renunciation of self. But no man can empty himself of self. We can only consent for Christ to accomplish the work. Then the language of the soul will be, Lord, take my heart; for I cannot give it. It is Thy property. Keep it pure, for I cannot keep it for Thee. Save me in spite of myself, my weak, unchristlike self. Mold me, fashion me, raise me into a pure and holy atmosphere, where the rich current of Thy love can flow through my soul. {COL 159.3}

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Before I go on to answer this question in further detail. I would like us to consider how the three parables relate to this topic?

The lost coin. The one for whom was searched until found; who could do nothing for himself.

The lost sheep. The one that knew it was lost and trapped and could do no more than bleat; for whom the Lord went and searched and brought back home.

The prodigal son. The one who knew the way home and it was expected of him to do so; for whom the Lord did not send anyone, but waited longingly.


There are other parables as well, meaning that we should be ware of trying to create a unilateral problem or solution. Sin is too deceptive for such a scene, and God meets us where we are. Nevertheless there are good points that we can get hold of, and I shall put them in the next post.