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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: James Peterson]
#164202
04/10/14 10:24 PM
04/10/14 10:24 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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In much the same way that the prophets waited, so the angels of God bid their time until God revealed the things He spoke of long ago. And His angels trusted Him, and waited too. Of course the angels trust God, but God, because He is an honest and just ruler, decided to give a public explanation for His decisions - that's why He makes a public judgment. Do you do a personal and private investigation of all new members in your congregation because you cannot just accept what the Pastor says about a newly baptized member, someone you don't know and with whom you must interact? Suppose you arrive at church to attend a baptismal service, and when the curtain of the baptismal tank is drawn aside, you see there in the tank someone you knew in the past as a child molester. No explanation is given. Would you have some questions to make about him to the pastor or to the elders after the service or not?
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: Rosangela]
#164203
04/10/14 11:15 PM
04/10/14 11:15 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Of course the angels trust God, but God, because He is an honest and just ruler, decided to give a public explanation for His decisions - that's why He makes a public judgment. Where did He ever give a "public explanation for His decisions"? Suppose you arrive at church to attend a baptismal service, and when the curtain of the baptismal tank is drawn aside, you see there in the tank someone you knew in the past as a child molester. No explanation is given. Would you have some questions to make about him to the pastor or to the elders after the service or not? Do you do it? ///
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: James Peterson]
#164204
04/11/14 12:08 AM
04/11/14 12:08 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,707
Canada
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Do you do a personal and private investigation of all new members in your congregation because you cannot just accept what the Pastor says about a newly baptized member, someone you don't know and with whom you must interact? ///
Yes there is to be a process -- Thorough Instruction and Public Examination Before Baptism— Candidates individually or in a baptismal class should be instructed from the Scriptures regarding the Church’s fundamental beliefs and practices and the responsibilities of membership. A pastor should satisfy the church by a public examination that candidates are well instructed, are committed to taking this important step, and by practice and conduct demonstrate a willing acceptance of Church doctrines and the principles of conduct which are the outward expression of those doctrines, for “by their fruits you will know them” (Matt. 7:20). “The test of discipleship is not brought to bear as closely as it should be upon those who present themselves for baptism. It should be understood whether they are simply taking the name of Seventh-day Adventists, or whether they are taking their stand on the Lord’s side, to come out from the world and be separate, and touch not the unclean thing. Before baptism there should be a thorough inquiry as to the experience of the candidates. Let this inquiry be made, not in a cold and distant way, but kindly, tenderly, pointing the new converts to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Bring the requirements of the gospel to bear upon the candidates for baptism.”—6T 95, 96. Church manual 2010 page 44
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: James Peterson]
#164205
04/11/14 12:58 AM
04/11/14 12:58 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,707
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The angels of God trust His judgement. Only SDA teach distrust in heaven. Only dictators think that their subjects don't deserve to know the reasons for the decisions they make.
And God is not a dictator -- His kingdom is based on love where everyone lives according to God's ways BECAUSE THEY LOVE TO live that way, and they love Him. If God demands blind trust, why didn't He simply squelch sin when it first manifested itself? Why not get rid of the evil spirits (fallen angels) right away thus stopping all the pain, suffering, war, misery and everything else sin has brought, rather than letting it drag on for thousands of years. Sin started in heaven. Doubts were placed in the minds of the angelic hosts by a high ranking angel name Lucifer. He was "covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire." {Ez.28:16) "the anointed cherub that covers;" he was "upon the holy mountain of God; and walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. He was perfect in all his ways from the day that he was created, till iniquity was found in him. (Ez. 28:14) He had great influence in a realm where to that point sin was totally unknown. Yes he planted a lot of doubts in the minds of many of the angels. Quite a few "left their first estate" (Jude 1:6)and joined him in his growing darkness. This whole sinful world is an exhibition of Lucifer/satan's supposedly "better plan" in opposition to God's just and holy rule. This exhibition should remove all doubts of anything "better" in what satan offers. While we do need to learn to fully trust God even when we don't see the end from the beginning. God will still reveal to all, to the angels, as well as humans, His ways, so as to remove any and all doubts forever. When the sin demonstration of satan's ways is forever ended, sin will never again manifest itself, because God allowed this fallen angel to demonstrate the nature of his claims, but He also thoroughly revealed His own just, loving, fair and holy way, and everyone is 100% certain that He is the God they want to PRAISE AND WORSHIP and obey for eternity.
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: James Peterson]
#164206
04/11/14 01:01 AM
04/11/14 01:01 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Where did He ever give a "public explanation for His decisions"? He will do it - in the judgment. Eccle 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it is good, or whether evil. 2Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive the things done through the body, according to that which he has done, whether good or bad. Yes, of course I would do it in case this happened. Perhaps you have missed my post #164201.
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: dedication]
#164219
04/11/14 05:15 PM
04/11/14 05:15 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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Yes there is to be a process -- Thorough Instruction and Public Examination Before Baptism— Candidates individually or in a baptismal class should be instructed from the Scriptures regarding the Church’s fundamental beliefs and practices and the responsibilities of membership. A pastor should satisfy the church by a public examination that candidates are well instructed, are committed to taking this important step, and by practice and conduct demonstrate a willing acceptance of Church doctrines and the principles of conduct which are the outward expression of those doctrines, for “by their fruits you will know them” (Matt. 7:20). “The test of discipleship is not brought to bear as closely as it should be upon those who present themselves for baptism. It should be understood whether they are simply taking the name of Seventh-day Adventists, or whether they are taking their stand on the Lord’s side, to come out from the world and be separate, and touch not the unclean thing. Before baptism there should be a thorough inquiry as to the experience of the candidates. Let this inquiry be made, not in a cold and distant way, but kindly, tenderly, pointing the new converts to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Bring the requirements of the gospel to bear upon the candidates for baptism.”—6T 95, 96. Church manual 2010 page 44 It's an SDA tradition for all its members to thoroughly investigate the newly baptized. But of the Kingdom of God, it is written, "And with many other words [Peter] testified and exhorted [the multitude], saying, 'Be saved from this perverse generation.' Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them." (Acts 2:40-41) ///
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: dedication]
#164220
04/11/14 05:25 PM
04/11/14 05:25 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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And God is not a dictator -- His kingdom is based on love where everyone lives according to God's ways BECAUSE THEY LOVE TO live that way, and they love Him. If God demands blind trust, why didn't He simply squelch sin when it first manifested itself? Why not get rid of the evil spirits (fallen angels) right away thus stopping all the pain, suffering, war, misery and everything else sin has brought, rather than letting it drag on for thousands of years.
Sin started in heaven. Doubts were placed in the minds of the angelic hosts by a high ranking angel name Lucifer. He was "covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire." {Ez.28:16) "the anointed cherub that covers;" he was "upon the holy mountain of God; and walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. He was perfect in all his ways from the day that he was created, till iniquity was found in him. (Ez. 28:14) He had great influence in a realm where to that point sin was totally unknown. Yes he planted a lot of doubts in the minds of many of the angels. Quite a few "left their first estate" (Jude 1:6)and joined him in his growing darkness.
This whole sinful world is an exhibition of Lucifer/satan's supposedly "better plan" in opposition to God's just and holy rule. This exhibition should remove all doubts of anything "better" in what satan offers. While we do need to learn to fully trust God even when we don't see the end from the beginning. God will still reveal to all, to the angels, as well as humans, His ways, so as to remove any and all doubts forever. When the sin demonstration of satan's ways is forever ended, sin will never again manifest itself, because God allowed this fallen angel to demonstrate the nature of his claims, but He also thoroughly revealed His own just, loving, fair and holy way, and everyone is 100% certain that He is the God they want to PRAISE AND WORSHIP and obey for eternity. Do not add to the Word of God. Jesus himself told the paralytic and the multitude, "' But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins' — then He said to the paralytic, 'Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.'" (Mat. 9:6) The one whose sins have been forgiven, is made whole by God. He is also cleansed and lives. Jesus said so; and Paul too, "let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful." (Heb. 10:22-23) Again ... the cleansing of the sanctuary by the sprinkling of the "blood of Christ" alone, is the gift of the Holy Spirit and is sufficient as the guarantee of salvation. At the end, there is only one question: do you have the Holy Spirit or not? God knows who are His; and His angels are fully aware of who the people of God are. ///
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: Rosangela]
#164222
04/11/14 05:34 PM
04/11/14 05:34 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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He will do it - in the judgment. Eccle 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it is good, or whether evil. 2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive the things done through the body, according to that which he has done, whether good or bad. Those don't say anything about a "public explanation for His decisions". They speak about a revelation of His will. We appear before Christ to receive either salvation or damnation based on our conscience. You either love God sincerely or you don't. (John 21:15-19) Yes, of course I would [investigate] in case this happened. Perhaps you have missed my post #164201. Do you do it? That was the question, not whether you would do it in a particular case. But DO YOU DO it? ///
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: James Peterson]
#164226
04/11/14 07:46 PM
04/11/14 07:46 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Again ... the cleansing of the sanctuary by the sprinkling of the "blood of Christ" alone, is the gift of the Holy Spirit and is sufficient as the guarantee of salvation. At the end, there is only one question: do you have the Holy Spirit or not? God knows who are His; and His angels are fully aware of who the people of God are. James, you are comparing apples and oranges. Hebrews 9:13, 14 doesn't refer at all to the sprinkling of blood on the sanctuary for its cleansing; it refers to the sprinkling of blood, and of water with ashes, upon defiled people in order to make them clean. Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow sprinkled on those who are defiled consecrated them and provided ritual purity, Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our consciences from dead works to worship the living God. The reference is to Exo. 29:21; Lev. 14:7; Numbers 8:7, 19:18, 19; Eze. 36:25; etc.
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Re: Foretelling the rejection of the Investigative Judgement?
[Re: James Peterson]
#164227
04/11/14 07:58 PM
04/11/14 07:58 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Those don't say anything about a "public explanation for His decisions". As far as I know, the judgment will be a public event.
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