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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164416
04/19/14 01:11 AM
04/19/14 01:11 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Still haven't answered my questions. Please do.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #164417
04/19/14 03:09 AM
04/19/14 03:09 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL, are you suggesting the molten, flaming, liquid lake of fire (described in the passages I posted above) symbolizes God's character?

PS - you didn't answer my questions.
The answer is in scripture.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #164420
04/19/14 06:52 AM
04/19/14 06:52 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL, are you suggesting the molten, flaming, liquid lake of fire (described in the passages I posted above) symbolizes God's character?

PS - you didn't answer my questions.
The answer is in scripture.

Indeed it is.

Psalm 15Isaiah 33Comments
A Psalm of David. LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? (verse 1)The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? (verse 14)The term "holy hill" appears synonymous with "devouring fire" and "everlasting burnings."
He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart. (verse 2)He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; (verse 15a)These verses show Biblical parallelism in teaching the same truths.
[He that] backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. (verse 3)that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; (verse 15d)
[He that] putteth not out his money to usury, (verse 5a)
he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, (verse 15b)
nor taketh reward against the innocent. (verse 5b)that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, (verse 15c)
He that doeth these [things] shall never be moved. (verse 5c)He shall dwell on high: his place of defence [shall be] the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters [shall be] sure. (verse 16)


That table illustrates the fact that God's character, His "holy hill," is one of "devouring fire" and "everlasting burnings"--all from Scripture.

"For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God." (Deuteronomy 4:24)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164425
04/19/14 12:04 PM
04/19/14 12:04 PM
APL  Offline
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Green - AMEN! I have used the same verses. Add to these:

Ezekiel 28:11-19
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation on the king of Tyrus, and say to him, Thus said the Lord GOD; You seal up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of your tabrets and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created.
14 You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were on the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the middle of the stones of fire.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the multitude of your merchandise they have filled the middle of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the middle of the stones of fire.
17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, that they may behold you.
18 You have defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the middle of you, it shall devour you, and I will bring you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all them that behold you.
19 All they that know you among the people shall be astonished at you: you shall be a terror, and never shall you be any more.

Isaiah 13:8-9
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travails: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand on their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Some recommended studies: HERE and HERE


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164426
04/19/14 12:25 PM
04/19/14 12:25 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Indeed, APL, there are many other passages to reflect on relative to this topic.

Notice that in Ezekiel 28:14, the "stones of fire" appears to be a part of the perfect environment of heaven. In verse 15, after mentioning that he had been perfect heretofore, iniquity is found in him.

Notice again in verse 18 Who is saying He will bring forth a fire to devour the defiled one and bring him to ashes.

Indeed, God is a consuming fire, a devouring fire, and an eternal fire.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164427
04/19/14 01:24 PM
04/19/14 01:24 PM
APL  Offline
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Green - our "facts" are the same. Our paradigms are not.

Notice AGAIN in verse 18 - "therefore will I bring forth a fire from the middle of you". Where is the fire coming from? Why does the fire come? Is it punishment sent by God? One paradigm have God inflicting the punishment. The other has sin inflicting the punishment. Are we to be saved from God or from sin? Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164428
04/19/14 02:30 PM
04/19/14 02:30 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL, you have refused to apologize for bearing false witness. You also refuse to answer my questions. You make it impossible to carry on a discussion.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164430
04/19/14 06:19 PM
04/19/14 06:19 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
MM - why to you refuse to show where I am wrong about you? You are accusing me of lying, but HOW can I lie when I state what I believe? Do I have to assume you just refuse to clarify your position, or you can't, or you are embarrassed by it? (who knows...)

As for discussions, you asked a question, I tried to see how you view related symbols, you ignore the question and state I will not answer. So be it. Nothing is forcing you to continue, it is your choice.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #164442
04/20/14 12:24 AM
04/20/14 12:24 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
Green - our "facts" are the same. Our paradigms are not.

Notice AGAIN in verse 18 - "therefore will I bring forth a fire from the middle of you". Where is the fire coming from? Why does the fire come? Is it punishment sent by God? One paradigm have God inflicting the punishment. The other has sin inflicting the punishment. Are we to be saved from God or from sin? Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


Ellen White tells us exactly where the fire comes from.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
While Satan was rallying his army, the saints were in the city, beholding the beauty and glory of the Paradise of God. Jesus was at their head, leading them. All at once the lovely Saviour was gone from our company; but soon we heard His lovely voice, saying, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." We gathered about Jesus, and just as He closed the gates of the city, the curse was pronounced upon the wicked. The gates were shut. Then the saints used their wings and mounted to the top of the wall of the city. Jesus was also with them; His crown looked brilliant and glorious. It was a crown within a crown, seven in number. The crowns of the saints were of the most pure gold, decked with stars. Their faces shone with glory, for they were in the express image of Jesus; and as they arose and moved all together to the top of the city, I was enraptured with the sight. {EW 53.1}

Then the wicked saw what they had lost; and fire was breathed from God upon them and consumed them. This was the execution of the judgment. The wicked then received according as the saints, in unison with Jesus, had meted out to them during the one thousand years. The same fire from God that consumed the wicked purified the whole earth. The broken, ragged mountains melted with fervent heat, the atmosphere also, and all the stubble was consumed. Then our inheritance opened before us, glorious and beautiful, and we inherited the whole earth made new. We all shouted with a loud voice, "Glory; Alleluia!"

-
{EW 54.1}
[Underlining supplied, italices original]

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164445
04/20/14 01:30 AM
04/20/14 01:30 AM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Ellen White writes:

I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them.

God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stifles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest.

It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer.



Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Page 84 of 102 1 2 82 83 84 85 86 101 102

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