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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164469
04/20/14 09:06 PM
04/20/14 09:06 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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APL,

I read the handout at that page. No answer there. Lots of texts. Texts are good. But the "who" questions went unanswered.

Please tell me who YOU think is able and is not able to kill the soul.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164470
04/20/14 10:18 PM
04/20/14 10:18 PM
APL  Offline
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correct - the handout is just that, a handout - with texts and a few definitions. The meat is in the sermon.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #164479
04/21/14 04:01 PM
04/21/14 04:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL, this is the third time I've reposted this.

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
APL:

Originally Posted By: APL
Does the death of Christ say anything to you about the death of a sinner? It does not to MM, what about you?

Thou shalt not bear false witness. You are lying about me.
Yep - and I think I have responded each time. Shalom.

Responded? You lied about me. And you have refused to apologize.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164482
04/21/14 04:45 PM
04/21/14 04:45 PM
APL  Offline
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AND - You refuse to clarify what exactly I lied about! WHY? I only lied if I do not believe what I said, and I believe what I said to be true. NOW - if you know me to be wrong, then show me how it is I am wrong, with specifics. But if you will not, then I have nothing more to say on the subject.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #164489
04/22/14 12:09 AM
04/22/14 12:09 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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What makes you so certain I believe the death of Christ says nothing about the death of a sinner? On what are you basing your accusation?

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #164490
04/22/14 12:12 AM
04/22/14 12:12 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL:

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The cross says plenty about the lake of fire. However, there are way more differences between the two events.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #164491
04/22/14 12:14 AM
04/22/14 12:14 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL:

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Are you aware of any differences between Jesus' experience and what the wicked will experience? Here is some things to consider:

Quote:
The arm of Omnipotence alone can cleanse the earth from the evil which Satan has brought into it. This He will do by destroying the world by fire, even as He destroyed the old world by a flood. {RH, April 16, 1901 par. 13}

Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething lake of fire. {GC 672.2}

The wicked receive their recompense in the earth. Proverbs 11:31. They "shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1. Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. {GC 673.1}

When the flood of waters was at its height upon the earth, it had the appearance of a boundless lake of water. When God finally purifies the earth, it will appear like a boundless lake of fire. As God preserved the ark amid the commotions of the flood, because it contained eight righteous persons, he will preserve the New Jerusalem, containing the faithful of all ages, from righteous Abel down to the last saint which lived. Although the whole earth, with the exception of that portion where the city rests, will be wrapped in a sea of liquid fire, yet the city is preserved as was the ark, by a miracle of Almighty power. It stands unharmed amid the devouring elements. "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up." {3SG 87.2}

Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}

The wicked are filled with the same hatred of God that inspires Satan; but they see that their case is hopeless, that they cannot prevail against Jehovah. Their rage is kindled against Satan and those who have been his agents in deception, and with the fury of demons they turn upon them. {GC 671.2}

The wicked are enraged. They hate God. They conspire with evil angels to attack the New Jerusalem. They hate one another. They turn upon each other. Fire rains down from heaven and raises up from below. They suffer in a flaming, liquid sea of fire in duration and intensity according to their sinfulness. Satan's dies last.

Note the major differences between the two events.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #164492
04/22/14 12:19 AM
04/22/14 12:19 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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APL:

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
You believe Jesus permits evil men and evil angels to cause death and destruction. Did Jesus do it while here in the flesh?

Do you also believe evil men and evil angels are at liberty to cause death and destruction whenever and however they please - including killing innocent women and children?

Or, are they required to obtain Jesus' permission first?

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #164498
04/22/14 02:34 PM
04/22/14 02:34 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
[quote=APL][quote=Mountain Man]APL, this is the third time I've reposted this.

[quote=Mountain Man]
Responded? You lied about me. And you have refused to apologize.
MM, this is getting old! How many posts have you falsely accused APL of saying something which you refuse to back up? And it's not just this time. More than once you falsely accuse someone about lying about what you say, but never substantiate it. Either you have some sort of weasel word you are focusing on, (such as APL should have said "hardly anything" rather than "nothing"), or you substitute one word for another. But any non-biased reasonable person would say whatever is being said reflects your view accurately even if it was not technically precise.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #164499
04/22/14 02:43 PM
04/22/14 02:43 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
That's right! God IS the executioner, but he does not stand, perhaps he sits?
Awww. I was going to suggest that. smile

Quote:
Originally Posted By: green
But if we destroy ourselves, He will be forced to destroy our soul and body in hell.
Maybe someday, you will understand who it is the destroys the body and soul in the grave, and when you do, perhaps, maybe, it will open your eyes.

Your paradigm has God being the executioner. He is not.
I think Green was suggesting the soul continues living...?


Green, what does "not stand toward the sinner" mean to you? How would it be said if She had indeed meant God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression?

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