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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Mountain Man] #164968
05/13/14 10:23 PM
05/13/14 10:23 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Rosangela, I believe Romans 7:14-25 describes thoroughly converted Christians who are successfully fighting the good fight of faith - resisting the unholy clamorings of sinful flesh. "I allow not." "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God."

"I am carnal, sold under sin"
"For I do not do the good that I desire"
"bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members"

Does this describe the experience of the born-again, victorious Christian?

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #164969
05/13/14 10:29 PM
05/13/14 10:29 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Western, USA
The whole heart must be yielded to God, or the change can never be wrought in us by which we are to be restored to His likeness. By nature we are alienated from God. The Holy Spirit describes our condition in such words as these: "Dead in trespasses and sins;" "the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint;" "no soundness in it." We are held fast in the snare of Satan, "taken captive by him at his will." Ephesians 2:1; Isaiah 1:5, 6; 2 Timothy 2:26. God desires to heal us, to set us free. But since this requires an entire transformation, a renewing of our whole nature, we must yield ourselves wholly to Him. {SC 43.2}

The warfare against self is the greatest battle that was ever fought. The yielding of self, surrendering all to the will of God, requires a struggle; but the soul must submit to God before it can be renewed in holiness. {SC 43.3}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Rosangela] #164976
05/14/14 03:53 AM
05/14/14 03:53 AM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Is the man of Rom 7 converted? He is definitely struggling against the flesh. He wants to do good, but there is a warring element in his members. Is this the condition of the unconverted? No. Only the converted wars against the flesh; there is no such conflict in the unconverted.

There is such a conflict in the person who is in the process of conversion.
Does the converted person war against the flesh? Sometimes, but not in such a dramatic way as is presented here. Otherwise the converted person knows no victory.

I want to dig deeper into this, but can't do it at the moment. Just some quotes for now.

Unless man is given the converting grace of heaven, he will have no disposition to oppose Satan’s counsels, and will become the enemy’s willing dupe. It is God alone who puts enmity to sin in the human heart. The Lord gives man a new mind. He causes the conflict that will not submit to Satan’s deceptive reasoning. It is God who makes a conflict where heretofore there has been unity of action. It is the Lord’s purpose that depraved human nature should, through His divine power, be provided with a renovating energy. – {13MR 383.1}

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Philippians 3:6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Paul says that as “touching the righteousness which is in the law”—as far as outward acts were concerned—he was “blameless” (Philippians 3:6); but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, he saw himself a sinner. Judged by the letter of the law as men apply it to the outward life, he had abstained from sin; but when he looked into the depths of its holy precepts, and saw himself as God saw him, he bowed in humiliation and confessed his guilt. He says, “I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” Romans 7:9. When he saw the spiritual nature of the law, sin appeared in its true hideousness, and his self-esteem was gone. – {SC 29.3}


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Rosangela] #164977
05/14/14 04:47 AM
05/14/14 04:47 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
"I am carnal, sold under sin" "For I do not do the good that I desire" "bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members" Does this describe the experience of the born-again, victorious Christian?

Yes. The warfare against sinful flesh continues until the day Jesus returns and replaces it with a sinless flesh. Remember, the "flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God." It can tempt, but it cannot sin. Neither can it corrupt or contaminate. It is not a sin to be tempted.

Quote:
There is earnest warfare before all who would subdue the evil tendencies that strive for the mastery. {GC 489.3}

Each day he must renew his consecration, each day do battle with evil. Old habits, hereditary tendencies to wrong, will strive for the mastery, and against these he is to be ever on guard, striving in Christ's strength for victory. {AA 476.3}

Self will strive for the mastery and will be opposed to the work of bringing the life and thoughts, the will and affections, into subjection to the will of Christ. Self-denial and the cross stand all along in the pathway to eternal life, and, because of this, "few there be that find it." {2T 687.3}

He who determines to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of an unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him. Selfishness and pride will make a stand against anything that would show them to be sinful. We cannot, of ourselves, conquer the evil desires and habits that strive for the mastery. We cannot overcome the mighty foe who holds us in his thrall. God alone can give us the victory. He desires us to have the mastery over ourselves, our own will and ways. But He cannot work in us without our consent and co-operation. The divine Spirit works through the faculties and powers given to man. Our energies are required to co-operate with God. {MB 141.3}

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Mountain Man] #164978
05/14/14 10:05 AM
05/14/14 10:05 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Rosangela, I believe Romans 7:14-25 describes thoroughly converted Christians who are successfully fighting the good fight of faith - resisting the unholy clamorings of sinful flesh. "I allow not." "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God."


Paul is speaking metaphorically.

1. Sin and death is the devil
2. The Law is the word of God
3. The Spirit is your faith in God (occasioned by His love He implanted in you because of Calvary)

"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." (Rom. 7:25)

Is Paul advocating a double-standard? No, but an acceptance of the reality that we live in this world, yet with hope of another one to come "wherein righteousness dwells". He THANKS God, remember? He says immediately afterwards, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Rom. 8:1-2)

In another place he says, "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." (Rom. 8:5) And again, "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." (Rom. 8:11)

Still further, and more tellingly, "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended:but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." (Philippians 3:12-14)

In other words, do not be discouraged; and keep yourself from the path of temptation.

///

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #164980
05/14/14 04:46 PM
05/14/14 04:46 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
James, it sounds like we agree. The lusts, desires, affections of the flesh tempt us from within to be unlike Jesus. While abiding in Jesus, while partaking of the divine nature, the Holy Spirit empowers us to recognize and resist the unholy temptations that come to mind.

Galatians
5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

1 Peter
2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Mountain Man] #164982
05/14/14 05:00 PM
05/14/14 05:00 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
James, it sounds like we agree. The lusts, desires, affections of the flesh tempt us from within to be unlike Jesus. While abiding in Jesus, while partaking of the divine nature, the Holy Spirit empowers us to recognize and resist the unholy temptations that come to mind.

Galatians
5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

1 Peter
2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

But I thought you said you do not sin since you are "in Christ" ... ???

///

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #164989
05/14/14 06:01 PM
05/14/14 06:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Born-again believers, while abiding in Jesus, while walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, while partaking of the divine nature - do not sin and cannot sin. The Holy Spirit empowers them to recognize and resist the unholy temptations that come to mind - the lusts, desires, affections of the flesh that tempt them from within to be unlike Jesus.

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Mountain Man] #164992
05/14/14 08:26 PM
05/14/14 08:26 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Born-again believers, while abiding in Jesus, while walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, while partaking of the divine nature - do not sin and cannot sin. The Holy Spirit empowers them to recognize and resist the unholy temptations that come to mind - the lusts, desires, affections of the flesh that tempt them from within to be unlike Jesus.

Are you therefore walking continually IN AND OUT "of the Spirit" during the course of the day?

///

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #164996
05/14/14 10:13 PM
05/14/14 10:13 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
I guess it depends on whether or not the born-again believer is consciously, deliberately choosing to abide in Jesus, to walk in the Spirit. Neglecting to abide in Jesus results in dethroning the Holy Spirit. Without the indwelling presence of the Holy, they cannot resist sin, self, or Satan. Without the Holy Spirit, they are as powerless as unbelievers. They are incapable of imitating the example of Jesus. They must continually, moment by moment, choose Jesus. Otherwise, by default, they fail and fall.

Galatians
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

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