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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Johann] #165125
05/19/14 05:42 AM
05/19/14 05:42 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Johann
This lesson indicates some have made wrong conclusions based on the KJV:

Quote:
Influenced by the translation of 1 John 3:4 in the King James Version ("sin is the transgression of the law"), many restrict sin to the violation of the Ten Commandments alone. However, a more literal translation is: "sin is lawlessness" (NKJV) (anomia). Anything that goes against the principles of God is sin. Hence, although the Ten Commandments had not yet been formally revealed when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, he violated a command of God (Gen. 2:17) and was consequently guilty of sin. Indeed, it is through the sin of Adam that the curse of death has affected all generations of humanity (Rom. 5:12, 17, 21).


The lesson is wrong on this point. The lesson quotes the KJV wording which says that "sin is the transgression of the law." The lesson then tries to redefine sin based on modern translations of the Bible. In this, the lesson authors show either their ignorance of Ellen White's writings, or disregard of them.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
The commandments of God are comprehensive and far reaching; in a few words they unfold the whole duty of man. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. . . . Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" (Mark 12:30, 31). In these words the length and breadth, the depth and height, of the law of God is comprehended; for Paul declares, "Love is the fulfilling of the law" (Romans 13:10). The only definition we find in the Bible for sin is that "sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). The Word of God declares, "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). "There is none that doeth good, no, not one" (Romans 3:12). Many are deceived concerning the condition of their hearts. They do not realize that the natural heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. They wrap themselves about with their own righteousness, and are satisfied in reaching their own human standard of character; but how fatally they fail when they do not reach the divine standard, and of themselves they cannot meet the requirements of God. {1SM 320.1}


The lesson authors want a new definition of sin. Why? Ellen White declares to us that the lesson's philosophy is error. In fact, she chose the KJV over the Revised Version (RV) which was available to her at that time. The RV stated:

Originally Posted By: Revised Version
Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness. (1 John 3:4; 1881 edition)

Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (1 John 3:4, current edition)


Ellen White could have quoted from that (the 1881 edition). But she didn't! Furthermore, she said the ONLY definition in the Bible is that "sin is the transgression of the law." Ellen White adhered to the KJV on this point. So will I.

The problem with "lawlessness" is that it can have two distinct meanings. To use such a word, then, introduces an ambiguity which is distasteful in such an elevated position as the Word of God. To be "lawless" can mean to be without law, OR to be in disobedience to the law. That first meaning, however, is complete heresy in terms of the Bible, because Paul teaches us that without the law there would be no sin; therefore, to be "lawless" in this sense would be the very opposite of sin. This kind of ambiguity is intolerable in a "definition."

Thankfully, we have Mrs. White's light to keep us on the straight and narrow. Modern scholars must be subjected to scrutiny, even as the Bereans carefully researched Paul's words for themselves. In this instance, the scholars have failed us.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Last edited by Green Cochoa; 05/19/14 05:50 AM. Reason: Added clarity to the 1881 edition of RV

We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: asygo] #165126
05/19/14 06:06 AM
05/19/14 06:06 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
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The Orient
Originally Posted By: asygo
When one considers that the law is simply a transcript of God's character, "sin is anomia" teaches us that sin is anything against God's character.

Anything against God's character is a transgression of His law.

The lesson conflated "anomia" (transgression) with "anomos" (lawlessness). Their agenda was clear. They were simply trying to promote the modern versions and attack the KJV. The KJV, however, stands the test. It is solid. They can try to defeat it, and they will succeed in persuading many, but the facts are against them and can speak for themselves.

Don't believe me? Look up "anomia" in your Greek lexicon/dictionary. That is the word that appears in 1 John 3:4, correctly mentioned in the lesson, but incorrectly said to mean "lawlessness." They have twisted this one. Anomia and anomos are two different words, each with distinct, albeit related/similar, meanings.

The modern lack of ability to discriminate, even to call discrimination evil, seems to fulfill the Bible's words regarding those who will call evil good and good evil. We must study to show ourselves approved unto God, and "rightly divide" the Word of truth.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Mountain Man] #165135
05/19/14 02:19 PM
05/19/14 02:19 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: Daryl
M: James, the Holy Spirit cannot dwell within people who are not consciously, continually choosing to abide in Jesus. Repentance restores the relationship sin severs. So, yes, it means the Holy Spirit is in and out. His location, however, does not undo rebirth or the maturation achieved while abiding in Jesus. Of course, if the Holy Spirit is forced out for a long period of time, ground gained is lost and rebirth is necessary.

D: Are you saying that the Holy Spirit actually enters us and leaves us like a yo yo each time we sin?

People who are abiding in Jesus do not sin. They cannot sin while abiding in Jesus. They must neglect or refuse to abide in Jesus and then all they can do is sin. The Holy Spirit cannot dwell within them while they are thus divorced from Jesus.
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
James, neglecting or refusing to abide in Jesus results in sinning. The Holy Spirit does not forsake of abandon; instead, He works to impress, inspire and offers repentance.
The Holy Spirit cannot dwell, but does not abandon?

Yeah, we must be missing your point again. So what are you saying?

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165142
05/19/14 04:03 PM
05/19/14 04:03 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Southwest USA
GC, I agree with you. Thank you.

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165148
05/19/14 04:29 PM
05/19/14 04:29 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Kland, there is a huge between the Holy Spirit outside impressing and the Holy Spirit inside empowering. "When Christ abides in the heart by faith, the Christian is the temple of God. Christ does not abide in the heart of the sinner, but in the heart of him who is susceptible to the influences of heaven." {RC 107.3} "They may have a theory of the truth, but they are not thoroughly converted. Their hearts are carnal; they do not abide in Christ and he in them." {GW92 40.2}

Quote:
It is through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that the Christian is enabled to resist temptation and to work righteousness. {Messenger, April 26, 1893 par. 4}

The soul must be surrendered to God, submitted to be purified and made fit for the indwelling of his Holy Spirit. {ST, November 20, 1884 par. 5}

The perfection of character which God requires is the fitting up of the whole being as a temple for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. {OFC 295.8}

My brother, if you open your heart to envy and evil surmising, the Holy Spirit cannot abide with you. {CCh 175.3}

If worldliness is allowed to come in, if we have no desire to pray, no desire to commune with Him who is the source of strength and wisdom, the Spirit will not abide with us. {OHC 154.4}

Those who are devoid of the Holy Spirit cannot be faithful watchmen upon the walls of Zion; for they are blind to the work that ought to be done, and do not give the trumpet a certain sound. {1888 1249.2}

If the heart is not kept under the control of God, if the Holy Spirit does not work unceasingly to refine and ennoble the character, the old habits will reveal themselves in the life. {CSA 21.5}

An indwelling Saviour is revealed by the words. But the Holy Spirit does not abide in the heart of him who is peevish if others do not agree with his ideas and plans. {CS 115.2}

God will not dwell with those who reject his truth; for all who disregard truth dishonor its Author. {HL 291.3}

Satan makes the idle man a partaker and co-worker in his schemes, and the Lord Jesus does not abide in the heart by faith. {FE 320.3}

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165150
05/19/14 04:55 PM
05/19/14 04:55 PM
Johann  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
If you check ἀνομία - anomia - in Greek dictionaries they usually give the definition as lawlessness. Dictionaries based on the KJV will inevitably give the KJV rendering.

When Ellen White had her sermon at Williamstown (a suburb of Melbourne), Victoria Sunday, 4:00 p.m., February 11, 1894, she said:

Quote:
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” Where there is no law there is no sin. What kind of world have we? What kind of world is it that will people heaven in their lawlessness? {1SAT 230.1}


By her use of both terms doesn't she indicate she was fully aware of the RV rendering? And she used it without stating it was wrong, didn't she?



"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: Green Cochoa] #165155
05/19/14 06:28 PM
05/19/14 06:28 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: asygo
When one considers that the law is simply a transcript of God's character, "sin is anomia" teaches us that sin is anything against God's character.

Anything against God's character is a transgression of His law.

The lesson conflated "anomia" (transgression) with "anomos" (lawlessness). Their agenda was clear. They were simply trying to promote the modern versions and attack the KJV. The KJV, however, stands the test. It is solid. They can try to defeat it, and they will succeed in persuading many, but the facts are against them and can speak for themselves.

Don't believe me? Look up "anomia" in your Greek lexicon/dictionary. That is the word that appears in 1 John 3:4, correctly mentioned in the lesson, but incorrectly said to mean "lawlessness." They have twisted this one. Anomia and anomos are two different words, each with distinct, albeit related/similar, meanings.

The modern lack of ability to discriminate, even to call discrimination evil, seems to fulfill the Bible's words regarding those who will call evil good and good evil. We must study to show ourselves approved unto God, and "rightly divide" the Word of truth.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Have you ever wondered what is sin? It says, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth ALSO the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So there are sins which do not IMMEDIATELY appear to be infractions of the law, but ultimately are.

And then John tells you plainly what IS the law. And it is this: "You shall love God with all your heart and mind, and your neighbour (your brother) as yourself." See? Therefore, when you do anything against God or man, whether it be explicitly prohibited or not, you have broken THE LAW OF LOVE.

Dear SDA, unlike what you have been fed, the Ten Commandments as all the rest of the Jewish Old Testament laws as given by God served only to teach us how to express that love. Doing them and marking up a chalkboard of merits in no way commends you to God. Rather out of the sanctified heart will pour rivers of living water, and your life will bear the fruit of the Spirit abiding in you. You will naturally be righteous, falling yes, but ever rising, ever hopeful, ever longing for the glory to come. Love will be your food and drink and you will grow thereby.

Do not return to the vomit of pride in Sabbath-keeping again, please. For the end thereof is death. (Mark 3:1-6)

///



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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: dedication] #165163
05/19/14 10:01 PM
05/19/14 10:01 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
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Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Interesting observation James. It is the word kai in the Textus Receptus which the KJV usually translates and but here renders as also.


Last edited by Johann; 05/19/14 10:02 PM.

"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: James Peterson] #165170
05/20/14 12:07 AM
05/20/14 12:07 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Dear SDA, unlike what you have been fed, the Ten Commandments as all the rest of the Jewish Old Testament laws as given by God served only to teach us how to express that love. Doing them and marking up a chalkboard of merits in no way commends you to God. Rather out of the sanctified heart will pour rivers of living water, and your life will bear the fruit of the Spirit abiding in you. You will naturally be righteous, falling yes, but ever rising, ever hopeful, ever longing for the glory to come. Love will be your food and drink and you will grow thereby.

Do not return to the vomit of pride in Sabbath-keeping again, please. For the end thereof is death. (Mark 3:1-6)

You have been fed the error that partial obedience is acceptable. God taught us how to love. Don't return to the vomit of pride in thinking man has come up with a better plan.

You have so many good things to offer, but your pride makes it stink. That just goes to show that knowledge tends to puff one up unless filled with the Holy Spirit. He didn't go away, but you have to start listening.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law [Re: James Peterson] #165171
05/20/14 01:11 AM
05/20/14 01:11 AM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Have you ever wondered what is sin? It says, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth ALSO the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So there are sins which do not IMMEDIATELY appear to be infractions of the law, but ultimately are.

They do not appear to be infractions of the law because of the person's ignorance of the law. Every sin is covered by the Ten Commandments.

Thayer's definition of anomia:

1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it

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