Jesus explains "defiled" in the following passage:


Jesus lists things that are defiled - evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. Please note that He does not include "righteousness and true holiness". Ellen White agrees. She makes it clear - The righteous results of abiding in Jesus are pure, holy, harmless, undefiled, wholly acceptable to God, without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing.

However, passing through corrupt human channels it lacks merit and, as such, it is defiled and unacceptable (not sin-stained). It requires the addition of Jesus' meritorious righteousness. His righteousness makes "righteousness and true holiness" (the fruit of abiding in Jesus) meritorious and acceptable. However, His meritorious righteousness:

1) doesn't change "righteousness and true holiness" from sin to righteousness.

2) doesn't remove sin from "righteousness and true holiness".

3) simply makes "righteousness and true holiness" meritorious.

So you say. Neither the Bible nor EGW say that.

Jesus tells us what is defiled by listing a bunch of sins. EGW said something is defiled, but you say it is not sin. You don't have a problem with that?

EGW said something is defiled, but you say it is perfectly clean. You don't have a problem with that?

You say something is perfectly holy and righteous, but God rejects it as defiled and unacceptable. You don't have a problem with that?

I do, in each case.

Mt Man you keep quoting the "greatest Battle" quote. Do you think that applies to Jesus? Did Jesus have to wage war against His selfishness to deny His heavenly station and give up heaven and come to earth? That was His great sacrifice. He gave up everything to come here. Then He gave up His life. He didn't wage war against Himself to give His life. He did it willfully. It's our battle to deny self to become like Him.

"The warfare against self is the greatest battle that was ever fought. The yielding of self, surrendering all to the will of God, and being clothed with humility, possessing that love that is pure, peaceable, and easy to be entreated, full of gentleness and good fruits, is not an easy attainment.... The soul must submit to God before it can be renewed in knowledge and true holiness. The holy life and character of Christ is a faithful example. His confidence in his heavenly Father was unlimited. His obedience and submission were unreserved and perfect. He came not to be ministered unto, but to minister to others. He came not to do his own will, but the will of Him that sent him. In all things he submitted himself to Him that judgeth righteously. From the lips of the Saviour of the world were heard these words, “I can of mine own self do nothing.” [John 5:30.]{GW92 376.2}

Do you think He had to fight against self to accomplish these things? The quote is applied to us. We are to look to Christ who came to minister perfection to us. He did not need to be ministered to because He was perfectly Holy in thought and action.

"He was fully aware of the glory He had with the Father before the world was. But then He willingly submitted to the Divine will, and He was unchanged now." {BEcho July 23, 1900, par. 6}

How could He be the same on earth as He was in heaven and be warring against lust in His flesh? He willingly did these things. There was no war in Himself about it.

Do a search and see if there was ever a quote in the Spirit of Prophecy that says Jesus warred against the flesh or selfishness. The Spirit NEVER says that, so why do you keep implying those texts apply to Him?

The only time the word hate is ever used for Christ is against sin and The only the word "warred" is used is against lust. Do you think this meant that He had lust in His flesh? He didn't war against lust in His flesh He warred against lust in the world, against the lust of OUR flesh.

"The righteous zeal manifested by Christ for the honor of God as the supreme Ruler, the unsparing denunciation of sin, the unmasking of the hypocrisy of those who made a pretense to piety, and thus deceived the people, the heavenly loveliness of his own unblemished character, aroused the enmity of the world against him, who hated nothing but sin. He warred against lust and hypocrisy, and this stirred up against him the most bitter hostility. The serpent himself came to the assistance of his seed, and evil angels and evil men conspired together in a confederacy of apostasy to destroy the champion of God, and to make void the law of the Most High.{ST July 11, 1895, par. 8}

He didn't war against flesh in Himself, He warred against these things outside of Himself. You have no idea what you are saying.

I would be very interested in hearing what wisdom Daryl could offer this debate.

Again you focus on behavior. Our behavior are just symptoms of the underlying sin. Christ took fallen human nature. If not, then the whole thing was a sham.

Which fallen human nature? One like Judas Iscariot's, or John the Baptist's?

Is there a difference?

By taking upon Himself man's nature in its fallen condition, Christ did not in the least participate in its sin. He was subject to the infirmities and weaknesses of the flesh with which humanity is encompassed, "that it might be fulfilled that was spoken by the prophet Esaias, Himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses." He was touched with the feeling of our infirmities, and was in all points tempted like as we are. And yet He was without a spot. {16MR 116.3}

Both John and Judas had fallen human nature, both participated in the sin. One trusted God.

The fallen human nature that Christ took upon Himself was coming in the form of a frail human body from the womb of Mary, experiencing hunger, thirst, needing to sleep as we do, needing to go to the bathroom as we do, needing to bathe and clean His dirty body as we do, aging as we do, feeling pain and discomfort as we do, being tempted as we do, etc.

The only thing different between us and Christ is that He never sinned, neither in thought, nor in action.

This is how I understand it.

No, I focus on the mind, while you focus on the body. What makes men sinners is their mind, not their body. We are born sinners, while Christ was born holy.

1) "Out of the heart of men proceed evil . . . that defileth the man." Defiled = evil oozing out of men.

2) Ellen White said "the religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin" are "defiled" as they pass through corrupt human channels. Do you really believe she used the word "defiled" in the same sense Jesus did? I do not.

3) I have repeatedly said - The fruit of abiding in Jesus (righteousness and holiness) is "defiled" when it passes through corrupt human channels. The difference between you and I is you believe defiled means "evil," whereas I believe defiled means "lacks merit".

4) It is the Bible and the SOP that say the fruit of abiding in Jesus is "pure and holy and undefiled". Nevertheless, it lacks merit. Jesus doesn't change a thing. He simply adds merit. If it was equivalent to "evil oozing out of men" it is absurd to think Jesus merely adds merit to it. No amount of merit can make "evil" acceptable.