APL, I appreciate how you contrasted mind and flesh. Excellent point. Thank you.

That's what I thought you would say. You see no difference between the wicked and the holy. Though one trusted in God, you don't see that as making any difference in his nature.

I, OTOH, believe that Christianity is not merely a modification of behavior, but a transformation of nature. Trust in God makes a world of difference.

That your view of Christianity makes no distinction between the wicked and the holy should give one pause.

Is our greatest battle against a carnal mind or carnal flesh?

M: I'm talking about Jesus fighting the "greatest battle" - resisting the clamorings of sinful flesh.

A: So you say. Neither the Bible nor EGW say that.

Human nature is ever struggling for expression, ready for contest; but he who learns of Christ is emptied of self, of pride, of love of supremacy, and there is silence in the soul. Self is yielded to the disposal of the Holy Spirit. {MB 15.1}

The Christian life is a battle and a march. But the victory to be gained is not won by human power. The field of conflict is the domain of the heart. The battle which we have to fight--the greatest battle that was ever fought by man--is the surrender of self to the will of God, the yielding of the heart to the sovereignty of love. The old nature, born of blood and of the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up. {MB 141.2}

He who determines to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of an unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him. Selfishness and pride will make a stand against anything that would show them to be sinful. We cannot, of ourselves, conquer the evil desires and habits that strive for the mastery. We cannot overcome the mighty foe who holds us in his thrall. God alone can give us the victory. He desires us to have the mastery over ourselves, our own will and ways. But He cannot work in us without our consent and co-operation. The divine Spirit works through the faculties and powers given to man. Our energies are required to co-operate with God. {MB 141.3}

Jesus continued, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." By nature the heart is evil, and "who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one." No human invention can find a remedy for the sinning soul. "The carnal mind . . is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." "Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." The fountain of the heart must be purified before the streams can become pure. There is no safety for one who has merely a legal religion, a form of godliness. The Christian's life is not a modification or improvement of the old life, but a transformation of the nature. There is a death to sin and self, and a new life altogether. This change can be brought about only by the effectual working of the Holy Spirit. {ST, March 8, 1910 par. 7}

This work of self-subduing requires determined, continuous effort. In fighting the good fight of faith, obtaining precious victories, we are laying hold of eternal life. This warfare requires most strenuous effort, the exertion of all our powers. We are to crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts. {YI, December 22, 1886 par. 6}

For "if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." That which was objectionable in the character is purified from the soul by the love of Jesus. All selfishness is expelled, all envy, all evil-speaking, is rooted out, and a radical transformation is wrought in the heart. "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." "The fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. {RH, July 22, 1890 par. 15}

He is to be with you in your daily battle with self, that you may be true to principle; that passion, when warring for the mastery, may be subdued by the grace of Christ; that you come off more than conqueror through Him that hath loved us. Jesus has been over the ground. He knows the power of every temptation. He knows just how to meet every emergency, and how to guide you through every path of danger. Then why not trust Him? {CC 117.4}

The higher powers of the being are to rule. The passions are to be controlled by the will, which is itself to be under the control of God. The kingly power of reason, sanctified by divine grace, is to bear sway in our lives. The requirements of God must be brought home to the conscience. Men and women must be awakened to the duty of self-mastery, the need of purity, freedom from every depraving appetite and defiling habit. They need to be impressed with the fact that all their powers of mind and body are the gift of God, and are to be preserved in the best possible condition for His service. {MH 130.3}

J: God has adopted human nature in the person of His Son, and has carried the same (human nature) into the highest heaven.{Hvn 72.2} Jesus brought sinful flesh into heaven? If this is the same "human nature" that He had on earth then there is something amiss in how you interpret those texts Mt Man.

A: Excellent point.

In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by a tie that is never to be broken. Through the eternal ages He is linked with us. "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son." John 3:16. He gave Him not only to bear our sins, and to die as our sacrifice; He gave Him to the fallen race. To assure us of His immutable counsel of peace, God gave His only-begotten Son to become one of the human family, forever to retain His human nature. This is the pledge that God will fulfill His word. "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder." God has adopted human nature in the person of His Son, and has carried the same into the highest heaven. It is the "Son of man" who shares the throne of the universe. {DA 25.3}

Excellent point.

Matthew
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

James
3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

1) Jesus tells us what is defiled by listing a bunch of sins.

2) EGW said something is defiled, but you say it is not sin. You don't have a problem with that?

3) EGW said something is defiled, but you say it is perfectly clean. You don't have a problem with that?

4) You say something is perfectly holy and righteous, but God rejects it as defiled and unacceptable. You don't have a problem with that? I do, in each case.

M: The difference between you and I is you believe defiled means "evil," whereas I believe defiled means "lacks merit".

A: IF it simply lacks merit, then why did she say, right in that quote, that it needs cleansing?

Do you believe we will receive "holy flesh" in this life?

PERHAPS you ignored/did not see, my post above?

Thus, is there a difference between the sinner and the converted? OH YES. "Let this MIND be in you..."