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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #165342
05/23/14 07:14 PM
05/23/14 07:14 PM
APL  Offline
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Western, USA
From what did Christ come to save us? Legal condemnation? Nope. Hint: Matthew 1:21

It is interesting that we have words such as "sinful flesh", and try to twist the definition of sinful to mean anything but full of sin.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #165344
05/23/14 09:04 PM
05/23/14 09:04 PM
asygo  Offline
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You and AT Jones are out in left field on this one. Jesus was neither corrupted nor full of sin. "In Him is no sin."


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #165348
05/23/14 10:53 PM
05/23/14 10:53 PM
APL  Offline
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You are right! "In Him is no sin"! 1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin. Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

But... 1 Peter 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:;

But asygo says, He was not in the the likeness of sinful flesh. He did not have sin in His body. But that is not what scripture is saying. AT Jones and others of his time were right on!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #165351
05/24/14 12:11 AM
05/24/14 12:11 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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APL,

Are you saying that Christ had sin in His body?

If so, then specifically what sin did Christ have in His body?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #165352
05/24/14 12:39 AM
05/24/14 12:39 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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"Christ possessed the same nature that man possesses. He was tempted in all points like as man is tempted. The same power by which He obeyed is at man's command. {TMK 292.6} Listen:

Quote:
The enemy was overcome by Christ in his human nature. The power of the Saviour's Godhead was hidden. He overcame in human nature, relying upon God for power. This is the privilege of all. In proportion to our faith will be our victory. {YI, April 25, 1901 par. 11}

Letters have been coming in to me, affirming that Christ could not have had the same nature as man, for if He had, He would have fallen under similar temptations. If He did not have man's nature, He could not be our example. If He was not a partaker of our nature, He could not have been tempted as man has been. If it were not possible for Him to yield to temptation, He could not be our helper. It was a solemn reality that Christ came to fight the battles as man, in man's behalf. His temptation and victory tell us that humanity must copy the Pattern; man must become a partaker of the divine nature. {1SM 408.1}

He who took humanity upon Himself knows just how to sympathize with the sufferings of humanity. He had the same nature as the sinner although He knew no sin, in order that He might be able to condemn sin in the flesh and might be able to sympathize with those who were in the difficulties, dangers, and temptations that beset His own path while He walked with men. They are to obtain help as He Himself obtained it, through a vital connection with God. {10MR 176.1}

God sent forth His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh that He might condemn sin in the flesh and reveal the fact to heaven, to the worlds unfallen and also the fallen world, that through the power of divine grace, through partaking of the divine nature, man need no longer stand under the curse of the law or remain in transgression. {14MR 82.3}

The glory of God is His character. . . . This character was revealed in the life of Christ. That He might by His own example condemn sin in the flesh, He took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh. Constantly He beheld the character of God; constantly He revealed this character to the world. Christ desires His followers to reveal in their lives this same character. {TMK 131.3}

"He did not leave us to retain our defects and deformities of character, or to serve Him as best we could in the corruption of our sinful nature. {HM, March 1, 1898 par. 1} "Then we are cleansed from all sin, all defects of character. We need not retain one sinful propensity. {RH, April 24, 1900 par. 6}

Originally Posted By: asygo
A: It sure doesn't look like Jesus leaves us the way He finds us. There is a great TRANSFORMATION to be wrought. A CONVERSION is needed. To say that Jesus came in as bad a shape as sinful man, and that He offers to give us that same image, is silly. No, Jesus was better than the sinful lot of this planet. So He calls us to accept Him and be CHANGED into His image, which is, obviously, not the same image that we have naturally. . . I don't understand why people say Jesus had the same exact nature as a sinner. They must be focusing on the non-evil, non-depraved part of sinful human nature.

M: It looks like we are saying the same thing. Jesus was like a born-again, transformed, converted believer = no sinful defective traits of character, no selfishness, no sinful propensities. Nevertheless, they retain sinful flesh. They must resist its unholy clamorings. And, everything they think, say, and do requires the merits of Jesus to be acceptable.

Ellen White - "He had the same nature as the sinner". "Christ possessed the same nature that man possesses."

Arnold - "I don't understand why people say Jesus had the same exact nature as a sinner."

Ellen White - "He did not leave us . . . to serve Him as best we could in the corruption of our sinful nature."

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: APL] #165353
05/24/14 12:55 AM
05/24/14 12:55 AM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
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Originally Posted By: APL
But asygo says, He was not in the the likeness of sinful flesh.

LOL That's a load of foolishness if I ever saw one. Your comprehension skills are .... ummmmm .... questionable.

I believe Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. I don't believe that Jesus came in sinful flesh. That's where you teach heresy.

Originally Posted By: APL
He did not have sin in His body.

As usual, you are talking about the body, I'm not. You are a one-trick pony. Feel free talk about the body, but most of us have moved on to the mind. Even AT Jones finally figured that out.

Originally Posted By: APL
AT Jones and others of his time were right on!

Jesus was full of sin? Ummmm, no. Neither repetition nor vehemence will make it so.

You say Christ's nature was corrupt. You are wrong. It's really that simple.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Daryl] #165355
05/24/14 01:06 AM
05/24/14 01:06 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl
APL, Are you saying that Christ had sin in His body? If so, then specifically what sin did Christ have in His body?

Romans
7:17-18 Sin that dwelleth in me . . . that is, in my flesh.

Galatians
5:17 The flesh lusteth against the Spirit.

1 Peter
2:11 Fleshly lusts . . . war against the soul.

Galatians
5:24 The affections and lusts . . . of the flesh.

2 Corinthians
5:21 He hath made him to be sin for us.

Romans
8:3 God [sent] his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

Hebrews
9:28 Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.

1 Peter
2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Daryl] #165356
05/24/14 01:07 AM
05/24/14 01:07 AM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl
APL,

Are you saying that Christ had sin in His body?

If so, then specifically what sin did Christ have in His body?


Daryl - What does SCRIPTURE say, not what I say? 1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bore our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live to righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.

It is Satan's constant effort to misrepresent the character of God, the nature of sin, and the real issues at stake in the great controversy. {GC 569.1}

What you really want to know, is what is the nature of sin.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #165357
05/24/14 01:08 AM
05/24/14 01:08 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Ellen White - "He had the same nature as the sinner". "Christ possessed the same nature that man possesses."

Arnold - "I don't understand why people say Jesus had the same exact nature as a sinner."

Ellen White - "He did not leave us . . . to serve Him as best we could in the corruption of our sinful nature."

I understand now - some people only see one type of SOP quote and completely miss balancing truths. That's why people say that. In fact, right in that post where I said that, I posted some very important passages, and you still completely missed it. I can only present truth, but I can't force you to accept it. That you continue to fail to see truth is far beyond my ability to remedy.

Yes, there are many quotes that say Jesus had the same human nature that we do. There is no denying that. You see that very clearly. You are very adept at expressing that truth. You always remember to bring it up. You will never forget it.

HOWEVER, you are imbalanced. We have been discussing this for years now, and there are passages I have quoted to you so many times and it seems that you are as ignorant of these truths as a heathen.

"Christ took our nature, fallen but not corrupted, and would not be corrupted unless He received the words of Satan in the place of the words of God." Are you saying that Jesus had exactly the same corrupt nature that we do?

MM, please answer Yes or No. I hope this will open your eyes to truths that you seem intent on burying.

BTW, this is why I like LeRoy Moore so much. He is able to accept both sides of the issue, unlike most others involved in this debate.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #165358
05/24/14 01:13 AM
05/24/14 01:13 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
The main point is, those who do not see the divine nature of Christ, those who say He only had human nature, point to those who do see the divine nature of Christ and say we believe Jesus could not have fallen, as been proven several times in this thread. But in fact that is not the case. We see how Jesus came to earth and walked the same path as fallen men in a sinless body yet we also see the great mystery of the divine nature of Christ. They are both a part of Jesus yet you only see the human nature and you present it like he had propensities for sin or "sin in His sinful flesh".
This is the dividing point. You have been given ample time and evidence to repent but your stubbornness of heart has divided you from the truth. The Holy Spirit only strives with those who are willing to listen and not present lies like the truth so like I have said at the beginning of coming to this website those who will not follow are being weighed in the balance and found wanting. If the record could be read you would see that it is the same people who have stood against truth this whole time. If you can have all the evidence presented and not repent of your false teachings then you divide yourself and there is nothing God can do to change that. Blind guides, who teach for doctrine the errors of men. This IS a faithful witness. In the name of Christ amen.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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