APL, please share the following with James:

Paul is talking about sinful flesh when he refers to the "sin that dwelleth in me . . . that is, in my flesh". Rom 7:17-18. The "lusts" and "affections" of sinful flesh tempt us from within to be unlike Jesus. Paul continues His explanation of sinful flesh in Romans 8. He says Jesus came in the "likeness of sinful flesh" and "condemned sin in the flesh". This insight must be understood in context, namely, the "sin that dwelleth in me . . . that is, in my flesh"

PS - Don't feel obligated to share this with James. He may decide to read it himself.

You just keep making your own doctrines Mr Mt Man!

"When the grace of God takes possession of the heart, it is seen that the inherited and cultivated tendencies to wrong must be crucified. A new life, under new control, must begin in the soul. All that is done must be done to the glory of God. This work includes the outward as well as the inward man. The entire being, body, soul, and spirit, must be brought into subjection to God, to be used by Him as an instrument of righteousness.{MYP 68.3}
The natural man is not subject to the law of God; neither, indeed, of himself, can he be. But by faith he who has been renewed lives day by day the life of Christ. Day by day he shows that he realizes that he is God’s property.{MYP 68.4}
Body and soul belong to God. He gave His Son for the redemption of the world, and because of this we have been granted a new lease of life, a probation in which to develop characters of perfect loyalty. God has redeemed us from the slavery of sin, and has made it possible for us to live regenerated, transformed lives of service. {MYP 68.5}

You still skip the inward man. The Spirit is not the inward man. You have no clue what you are talking about yet you act like one sent to correct others. Just the fact that you never even attempted to address this issue shows how self determined you are. There is no comprehension of this issue without the guidance of what has already been written and you never even quoted these vital texts until just now, and the way you try twisting things to suit your interpretation proves you do not have a clue what it all means.

You have totally confused all the important issues here and you will not hear. You should have begun by taking this important issue from scripture but instead you misquote the Spirit of Prophecy regarding sinners and apply it to Christ.

I read this differently. The body is made of flesh. The mind runs on the flesh. However the mind has a will that can be exercised to either follow the lower sinful lusts, or to follow the Spirit via Jesus Christ.

Note, if you take your quote and read back one sentence, you read the following: Christ has redeemed us; our very flesh He has saved at an infinite cost, giving His own flesh for the life of the world. {SpM 209.2} And note that the Adventist Home quote is only an excerpt of the Spalding Magan collection.

The reason I related to your question APL is because, is because Mt Man is saying the flesh and the body are not the same.

"It is sinful flesh, not the body"

This is so convoluted I don't think he even knows what he is saying any more. Like he will say anything to make his first statements valid.

This is the sentiment that has been driving this argument. By this one statement he has proven that he questions the purity of Christ because if it was not the body that Jesus was in the likeness of sinful flesh then he is saying that Christ was sinful in thought, with lusts warring in his mind.

He just proved it again by saying "The flesh referred to in the passage posted above is part of the lower powers, the lower passions, and has its seat in the body."

So Mt Man has just stated by this that he believes that Jesus had lower passions warring in his body. Doesn't anyone else see this?

By this one statement it should take away all of his credibility. He has completely discounted the sternest warnings of the Spirit of Prophecy saying we should not present Christ with the propensity for sin. CAN'T ANYONE ELSE SEE THIS?

The outward man is the Body, the inward man is our soul, our heart, our conscience which is either driven by the body or the Spirit of God. The Spirit works in us to purify the mind which drives the body and conscience. The lower passions are found in our mind. The body does not think for itself it is driven by evil thoughts. But when the law is written in our inward man, our hearts, we are given a heart of flesh and the stone heart is taken away.

"Paul declared, “we faint not; but though our outward man (Body/Flesh) perish, yet the inward man (Soul/Heart/mind) is renewed day by day.” Paul felt the power of the enemy; but though his physical strength was declining, yet faithfully and unflinchingly he declared the gospel of Christ. ”{AA 332.2}

“This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jeremiah 31:33, 34.{CT 454.3}

"Sisters, in the day when the accounts of all are balanced, will you feel a pleasure in reviewing your life, or will you feel that the beauty of the outward man was sought, while the inward beauty of the soul was almost entirely neglected?—Testimonies for the Church 4:629, 630 (1885).{DG 153.2}

A fabrication of truth, a twisting of the facts, and the way this issue is being received by most of you makes me wonder how much you all know of the truth.

"To the heart that has become purified, all is changed. Transformation of character is the testimony to the world of an indwelling Christ. The Spirit of God produces a new life in the soul, bringing the thoughts and desires into obedience to the will of Christ; and the inward man is renewed in the image of God. Weak and erring men and women show to the world that the redeeming power of grace can cause the faulty character to develop into symmetry and abundant fruitfulness.—Prophets and Kings, 233 (1917). {2MCP 549.4}

For Mt Man to insist that Jesus had sin IN His sinful flesh and to say that the flesh is not the body is to insist that Jesus had a faulty character, a corrupt inward man that needed transformation.

Look, it is as if there are two minds inside of us warring for supremacy. That is why we are told not to be DOUBLE MINDED!

I'm giving you all the evidence to find the truth here. If you cannot do that and insist on being ignorant and fighting to retain your argument you are lost.

"Of what profit is it to say pleasant things, to deplore the work of Satan, and yet at the same time to enter into the fulfillment of all his devices? This is being double minded (Letter 13, 1893).{7BC 938.3}

Mt Man acts like there is another brain somewhere in the body that mystically takes over, and that Jesus had this warring in His flesh.

To be double minded means to have spiritual schizophrenia. The same brain leading two different lives.

One mind lusts after the flesh and the other mind lusts after the Spirit.

God writes His law on our inward man, the one that is not fleshly. And then He can take over our body.

For Mt Man to say Jesus had sin warring in His flesh is to say Jesus was double minded.

Keep it simple. Follow the words of the apostles and stop making things up.

"Angels of God are drawn toward all who in their thoughts and devoted service draw nigh to God.... It is a great misfortune to be double-minded. “A double minded man is unstable in all his ways” (James 1:8).... Let us use to a purpose the mind the Lord has given us. Ambition, covetousness, the mania to follow the fashions, the customs, and practices of the world in order not to be thought singular, will soon obliterate all lines of distinction between the Christian’s lines of pursuit and the practices of the world.{HP 165.2}

Did Jesus have this problem Mt Man?

We are born slaves to sin because our minds are focused on worldly things. Jesus was born with His mind stayed on heaven. He was not double minded.

"Now as to Christ’s having 'like passions' with us; in the Scriptures all the way through He is like us, and with us according to the flesh. He is the seed of David according to the flesh. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. Don’t go too far. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh; not in the likeness of sinful mind. Don’t drag His mind into it. His flesh was our flesh; but the mind was the mind of Christ" (GC Bulletin, 1895, p. 327).


So being sinful does not constitute a taint of sin?

Rosangela - What is the taint of sin? It is following sin, following its natural bent, to satisfy self. Christ never for a moment participated in our sin yet, He took on our sin (do note who it is I am paraphrasing). This should cause all to pause and reflect on what sin really is. QUOTE: By taking upon Himself man's nature in its fallen condition, Christ did not in the least participate in its sin. He was subject to the infirmities and weaknesses of the flesh with which humanity is encompassed, "that it might be fulfilled that was spoken by the prophet Esaias, Himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses." He was touched with the feeling of our infirmities, and was in all points tempted like as we are. And yet He was without a spot. {16MR 116.3}

Bonus question - what killed Christ?

Does a fetus follow sin? Does a fetus follow its natural bent? Does a fetus satisfy self? Because EGW says that Christ was born without a taint of sin. Or is it your contention that every child is born without a taint of sin?

EGW does not include "words" and "behavior" in her definition of character. She simply says that "thoughts and feelings combined constitute the moral character."


She says repeatedly that a noble character is not inherited.

Passages I have quoted in previous discussions:

In the beginning, man was created in the likeness of God, not only in character, but in form and feature. {GC 644.3}

God gave our first parents a pure and upright character, in harmony with His law; and had they remained obedient, they would have bequeathed the same character to their posterity. But they listened to Satan's specious temptations, and transgressed this holy law, and the result was death. And the sons and daughters of Adam, instead of coming into the world, as God first made man, righteous and heirs of eternal life, have been the victims of sin and death and woe. This is the result of the transgression of God's law in Eden. {BEcho, July 29, 1895 par. 2}

God made Adam after His own character, pure and upright. There were no corrupt principles in the first Adam, no corrupt propensities or tendencies to evil. {AG 344.3}

God created Adam righteous, that is, with a righteous character; this character he would have bequeathed to his posterity, that is, his descendants would have been born righteous, that is, with a righteous character.

James, please limit yourself to sharing the truth as you see it. Enough with all the personal attacks.