Green, does the Bible not mean what it means?

Try this one: Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brothers is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Who is the devil accusing? Our brothers! Yeah for the women, they get off free from accusation. What does the Bible say? What does the Bible mean?

Green - did God send the serpents to bite the children of Israel? Is EGW wrong in her writing? Nope. But satan will "lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them." {GC 589.2}

I believe what EGW wrote is true! Satan did fear for his own life!!! But you did not say what you really meant - you meant to say God destroyed the earth, and Satan was afraid in the midst of all the chaos which God caused directly. But that is not what she said. God is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow. Reread {GC 589.2}

Are we to be afraid of God? Is that the kind of fear we must have? Love that is agape casts out craven fear (1 John 4:18). Jesus describes a group who will appear before Him in judgment at last who think they have “kept the commandments,” but Jesus must tell them sorrowfully, “I never knew you” (Matthew 7:21-22). What could have gone wrong? Their good “works” were “wonderful.”

Paul helps us understand what went wrong: these dear people had misunderstood what true commandment-keeping is. It does include Sabbathkeeping, health reform, tithe-paying, all the good works we can think of; but it fails to be true obedience unless it is motivated by agape: “Love [agape] does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [agape in the original] is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:10; the Greek construction could be understood as implying that agape alone is the fulfillment of the law). Only proclaiming Christ and Him crucified can motivate that fulfillment.

Does every place in the bible where it says God did such and such, does it mean God did such and such?

1Ch 10:13,14 And Saul died for his sin which he committed against the LORD, against the word of the LORD, which he did not keep, and also for seeking of a medium, to inquire, and inquired not of the LORD. And He killed him and turned the kingdom to David the son of Jesse. (MKJV)

Who killed Saul?

If we deal the same as you did with the flood, we would reply, it's as clear as day that God killed Saul. But we know that's not true. If it's not true with Saul, is it true with the flood? Could it be we should read the Bible as it means rather than what we think it says?

For if we insist on not understanding what the Bible means, but what it appears to say to us, what do we do in this case?

1Ch 10:4 And Saul said to his armor-bearer, Draw your sword and pierce me with it, lest these uncircumcised ones come and abuse me. But his armor-bearer would not, for he was very much afraid. So Saul took a sword and fell on it. (MKJV)

Yes Kland - the Bible means what it means. To Green, I'm an unbeliever.

John 10:10 The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Satan is the destroyer and God is the Restorer and here centers the entire great controversy.

In striking contrast to the wrong and oppression so universally practised were the mission and work of Christ. Earthly kingdoms are established and upheld by physical force [was the flood the use of physical force to destroy the wicked inhabitants by God?], but this was not to be the foundation of the Messiah's kingdom. In the establishment of his government no carnal weapons were to be used [NONE - no carnal weapons], no coercion practised [God does not force His will on us]; no attempt would be made to force the consciences of men [will God just kill then and not try to change their mind?]. These are the principles used by the prince of darkness for the government of his kingdom [why do we put Satan's atrributes on to God?]. His agents are actively at work, seeking in their human independence to enact laws which are in direct contrast to Christ's mercy and loving-kindness. {RH, August 18, 1896 par. 2}

Prophecy has plainly stated the nature of Christ's kingdom. He planned a government which would use no force [NONE - no force]; his subjects would know no oppression [love me, or I'll bring the flood on you!]. The symbols of earthly governments are wild beasts, but in the kingdom of Christ, men are called upon to behold, not a ferocious beast, but the Lamb of God. Not as a fierce tyrant did he come, but as the Son of man; not to conquer the nations by his iron power, but "to preach good tidings unto the meek;" "to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;" "to comfort all that mourn." He came as the divine Restorer, bringing to oppressed and downtrodden humanity the rich and abundant grace of Heaven, that by the power of his righteousness, man, fallen and degraded though he was, might be a partaker of divinity [yeah - but next time, He will be a tryrant, He will use force, He will destroy those that don't love Him - - WAKE UP AND SEE GOD AS HE REALLY IS]. {RH, August 18, 1896 par. 3}

The Bible means what it says. To say the Bible "means what it means" is "meaningless" and nonsensical. That's the same, of course, as saying "the Bible says what it says" or that God does what He does, or any number of similar redundancies.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

My Bible says that the LORD moved David to number Israel. Is that what the Bible means? Nope.

APL,

Mrs. White tells the truth. You are in great error of self-deception, thinking your understanding superior to the Bible's own words. If the Bible said it, then the Bible meant it.



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I'm in error. Interesting that EGW agrees with what I have said above, and you either will not or cannot argue against it. Why is that? Did God send that snakes? How? Did the LORD move David to number Israel? That is what the Bible "says", but what does the Bible mean? EGW can see it!

Could we focus on this problem for awhile?

Green says that White tells the truth.
The Bible says that the LORD moved David to number Israel.

Does White say that the LORD moved David to number Israel or not?

If APL agrees with White, then does that mean he agrees with the truth and not as Green says, that his understanding is superior to the Bible's own words? Or is Green saying that White's understanding is superior to the Bible's own words? Which is it, Green?