Reconversion and Rebaptism of Seventh-day Adventists—

The Lord calls for a decided reformation. And when a soul is truly reconverted, let him be rebaptized. Let him renew his covenant with God, and God will renew His covenant with him.... Reconversion must take place among the members, that as God’s witnesses they may testify to the authoritative power of the truth that sanctifies the soul.—Letter 63, 1903.{Ev 375.2}

Here is a quote that totally disproves your stand Mt Man...

"There is need of constant watchfulness, a daily reconversion, that our individual traits of character shall be wholly sanctified to God. All our powers are to be purified from the dross of sin, and trained for service. There are many who, while professing to be the servants of God, and to be looking for the soon return of Christ, are not having the experience that all must have who stand without fault before God. They are making mistakes in the work of character building. To continue to make these mistakes is a costly business, for they hinder the progress in the divine life.{TDG 307.2}

Here is another

"I am to say to all who claim to be converted, Are your hearts truly changed, and are you watching unto prayer, preserving a thoughtful, consistent course of action, that you may have not a semblance of religion, but the precious, genuine article? Ministers and physicians, when you accepted Christ did you experience a deep sense of spiritual need? How much it means to you who are to be ministers of righteousness, to accept the heavenly gift of light and love and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. You are to be imbued with such love for Christ that you will yield to Him your whole affections, surrendering your life to Him who gave His life for you. Imbued with the love of Christ, you are to be constrained to perform acts of unselfish service until such acts become your life practice. Daily growth into the life of Christ creates in the soul a heaven of peace; in such a life there is continual fruit bearing.{CH 633.2}
Brethren and sisters, we need the reformation that all who are redeemed must have, through the cleansing of mind and heart from every taint of sin. In the lives of those who are ransomed by the blood of Christ, self-sacrifice will constantly appear. Goodness and righteousness will be seen. The quiet, inward experience will make the life full of godliness, faith, meekness, patience. This is to be our daily experience. We are to form characters free from sin—characters made righteous in and by the grace of Christ.... Our hearts are to be cleansed from all impurity in the blood shed to take away sin. {CH 633.3}

So by what you are saying Mt Man if a man experiences true conversion, that's it there is no more growth.

If we experience true conversion it reveals to us just how far off the mark we truly are and no one in that Spirit could ever claim to be free of the need of more growth.

I cannot believe you would even perceive those quotes that way!

"We need to be converted daily. Our prayers should be more fervent; then they will be more effectual. Stronger and stronger should be our confidence that God’s Spirit will be with us, making us pure and holy, as upright and fragrant as the cedar of Lebanon.—Testimonies for the Church 7:250-252.{GW 272.4}

How can something that is complete continue to grow?

"The development of all our powers is the first duty we owe to God and to our fellow men. No one who is not growing daily in capability and usefulness is fulfilling the purpose of life. In making a profession of faith in Christ we pledge ourselves to become all that it is possible for us to be as workers for the Master, and we should cultivate every faculty to the highest degree of perfection, that we may do the greatest amount of good of which we are capable. {COL 329.2}

And another...

"There should be an earnest desire in the heart of every youth who has purposed to be a disciple of Jesus Christ to reach the highest Christian standard, to be a worker with Christ. If he makes it his aim to be of that number who shall be presented faultless before the throne of God, he will be continually advancing. The only way to remain steadfast is to progress daily in divine life. Faith will increase if, when brought in conflict with doubts and obstacles, it overcomes them. True sanctification is progressive. If you are growing in grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ, you will improve every privilege and opportunity to gain more knowledge of the life and character of Christ.{MYP 121.2}

How can you be growing if everything is revealed to you all at once in conversion?

Growth in grace involves maturing in the fruits of the Spirit - not gradually outgrowing sinful habits and practices. Such growth is an "advance from one stage of perfection to another," from "glory to glory" - not from greater sins to lesser sins. Paul wrote:


Newborn babes are born again free of the sins listed above "and such like". By "such like" he means any and all sins. Yes, Peter was converted. But he wasn't living in harmony with his convictions when he "dissembled". Born-again believers are free to sin. Rebirth does not rob them of their freedom or ability to sin.

It sounds like you believe the biblical description of rebirth is an incomplete experience, that it leaves people in ignorance of certain sinful habits and practices, that Jesus reveals their sins of ignorance later on as time and circumstances permit. Have I misunderstood your view of the biblical description of rebirth?

Now you are twisting your intent just like I was warned you would. I never even came close to asserting that we are not completely forgiven for all our known sins. In fact I have testified to you dozens of times that when God led me to the Sabbath that day I was given complete victory over even the desire to get drunk. But I knew that was wrong, I only needed God's help to overcome it. But did that mean that I knew it was wrong to not pay tithe, which is stealing from God? I needed to learn, just like those who are called by Christ His people need to learn.

God calls people who are still in IGNORANCE out of sin. They are still called by His name which means they are born again. That was my point and you said you cannot be born again in true conversion while remaing in ignorance, but instead of staying on that subject you twist it to include willful disobedience. You are masterful at convolution

What if like the vast multitude who do not yet keep the Sabbath they are sinning in ignorance? You said that it is impossible to be converted and to sin in ignorance.

Nor did I accuse you of such a thing. Please reread what I posted above.

The Bible describes the process of conversion in plain and simple terms. The process that ends in conversion is complete. Newborn babes are born again dead to sin and awake to righteousness. They are free from sin. Jesus implants a new nature, a new mind, a new heart, new tastes, new motives, new tendencies. Everything about them is new. That's how the Bible describes the process of conversion.

Once cleansed "from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit," they then begin the lifelong process of "perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord." While they are walking in the Spirit, while they are abiding in Jesus, while they are partaking of the divine nature - they cannot sin. They grow in grace and mature in the fruits of the Spirit from "glory to glory" "more and more unto the perfect day."

The Bible does not describe the process of conversion as a process whereby people experience rebirth or conversion first and then they begin a lifelong process of gradually discovering, confessing, and crucifying cultivated sinful habits and practices until they are finally free of sinning. This idea assumes they sin ignorantly because Jesus withholds the light of truth that would set them free.

It is impossible to experience rebirth or conversion in God's appointed way, the way it is described in the Bible, and come short of the glory of God, to end up ignorant of sinful habits cultivated prior to experiencing rebirth or conversion in God's appointed way. Jesus said, Teach "them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" and then baptize "them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". The Gospel Commission does not envision leaving people in partial darkness.

The heathen and savages the Bible and SOP refer to as worthy of eternal life are not representative of the process of conversion in God's appointed way. "Among the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instrumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God. {DA 638.2}

The people who the Bible and the SOP refer to as "my people," people who serve Jesus in darkness, who live up to the light they have, who are ignorant of Sabbath-keeping, diet and dress reform, etc are not representative of the biblical description of the process of conversion in God's appointed way.

John 16:4 “I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

This was spoken by Jesus in His last supper. They loved their Lord and were sad to hear Him say He was going. They were baptized and had done miracles in His name already.

Are you saying they were perfect in truth and understanding?

Of course they weren't or the Holy Spirit would not have needed to be sent.

Then Jesus went to Gethsemane and was betrayed and Peter denied the Lord 3 times. But after he betrayed him he made his way back to Gethsemane and left there a converted man. HE WAS CONVERTED That night but he still had ignorant sins in His heart. Sin's of prejudice. Are you saying prejudice is not a sin?

How could Peter be a converted man and given the task to feed the flock if he still had ignorant sins in his heart? Was he not converted? But Mrs White said he was.

Was Jesus leaving them in the hands of a man who still had sins in his heart because there was no one else? Wasn't it presumptuous of Jesus to leave before they were converted? THEY WERE converted but they still had unconfessed sins to overcome. The Holy Spirit convicted them of those sins later.

Thomas had a doubting heart. There is no faith in doubt. Was he not a converted man?

Conversion is a process. Justification is immediate, and God will advance as far in our hearts as we will let Him, but when there are un-confessed sins they still need to be worked out. This is the process of Sanctification.

By your own example Mt Man are you fully converted? Are you without sin?

Peter was not going against his convictions, he was ignorant. Why would God challenge him with the dream of the unclean animals if Peter was already convicted? Why did it take him so long to get it?

You are twisting things to suit your purpose again.