It sounds like you get one part of the equation in your mind and then close your mind to all the other variables, which proves you do not comprehend the reality of the quote.
In other words are you saying that the bible and Spirit of prophecy is wrong when it says that God has people in other denominations who are not keeping the Sabbath yet? Or let me make it more pertinent to the case of you and others here, are you saying that if you are in ignorance of any particular of the will of the Father that you do not have the true Spirit of God? Well maybe that is true for those teaching lies such as womens ordination. According to your understanding if you are wrong about anything in the faith then you are losr. Right?

James, please prove from the Bible people experience rebirth in "God's appointed way" ignorant of Sabbath-keeping or any other saving truth.

Revelation 18:1

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

There is a point in time that men will have to make up their minds about keeping the sins of Babylon or letting them go but they are still called MY PEOPLE by God.

James, are you suggesting Jesus calling them "My people" proves experiencing rebirth in God's appointed way leaves people deficient, destitute of certain saving truths?

PS - I expected you to cite Romans 2:13-15 as proof.

Are you saying that the people who God is calling His own who do not keep the Sabbath are perfect in sin?

No, I didn't mean to imply such a thing. My question to you was asked in hopes you would clarify your position. Ellen White makes a good point in the following passage:


By saying

1) makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct
2) lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character
3) makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips
4) the sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight

she doesn't leave room for the idea people are left ignorant of certain sinful traits of character.

You originally said;







So what I said IS what you believe.

You are either saying that those people are not born again, not truly in Christ, OR you are saying that those who God is calling His own who are still in Babylon are perfect in their sins. Which one is it? Or can you not think that deep to understand the implications of what you are trying to say?

If God is calling people HIS OWN who are still in ignorance about the Sabbath and the worship of Idols then obviously people can be in ignorance on even the Commandments of God and still be considered HIS.

Don't you see that? You take such extreme views on very important issues that leaves absolutely no room for grace.

Let me put it this way, when you were first brought to Christ, did you have a perfect understanding of every single issue? I know you didn't because your faith is still very flawed in comprehension. I do not say that lightly.

But since then you have learned where you were mistaken on some points correct? Does that mean you were not Christ's before?

Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent"

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,"

The people of God that are in the other churches are still God's people even though they are in ignorance and worshiping Idols on the wrong day of the week at this time. They still believe the Pope is a representative of Peter or believe in ghosts to this day yet God still calls them His own UNTIL they reject the message.

"For centuries men have walked in blindness concerning the true Sabbath, and the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now is the day of reformation, and he calls upon men everywhere to repent. When the light of God’s disregarded commandment shone upon the path of those who sincerely loved God, they delayed not to keep his statutes. They realized that they must come out from the world and be separate... {ST February 3, 1888, par. 5}

"Not all in the world are lawless and sinful. God has many thousands who have not bowed the knee to Baal. There are God-fearing men and women in the fallen churches. If this were not so, we would not be given the message to bear: “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen.” “Come out of her, My people.” Many of the honest in heart are gasping for a breath of life from heaven. They will recognize the gospel when it is brought to them in the beauty and simplicity with which it is presented in God’s Word.—Testimonies For The Church 9:109-111 (1909). {Ev 66.3}

When the Loud Cry is heard around the world then they will have to make a choice. You should be careful how you present this message of yours, it does not portray God to be very forgiving.

Yes, He considers them His own. However, their experience does not match the biblical description of the process of rebirth or conversion. You have not proven from the Bible or the SOP people experience the process of rebirth or conversion in ignorance of saving truths. Here's what the Bible says:


Newborn babes in Christ have laid aside all evil speaking. They are perfect and able to control the whole body.

So when Peter received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost that means he immediately became perfected in the Spirit? So why did he then begin to go back to circumcision and siding with the Jews? Paul had to rebuke Peter. They had to convene the first Jerusalem counsel to set Peter straight. God had to give him a vision saying "what I have called clean do not call unclean". He still had prejudice inside of him. So he obviously was not "all clean" right? That was why Jesus instituted the foot washing ceremony.

And another point is when were they considered reborn? At Baptism? At their first calling to be ministers? At the resurrection of Jesus or when He breathed on them the Spirit? Or was it at Pentecost?

Mrs White said that after Peter had denied Jesus 3 times he blindly made his way to Gethsemane and fell on the ground where Jesus had sweat blood and mourned for his sins against Christ, wishing he had been there for him that night. Then she says "he left that Garden a CONVERTED MAN", but does that mean Peter was perfected in the Spirit? No way, he still had many mistakes he went through after that night and still needed the early rain and still needed to be cleansed from his false doctrines.

The quotes you are misapplying are the work of a lifetime.

Some people can see right away. The less preconceived notions of errors the better. The more false doctrines they have inside of them the harder it is to be fully converted and even harder still to be perfected. That is why Jesus rebuked the disciples when the Centurion said "speak the word only and my servant shall be healed" and Jesus said "I have not found such great faith in all of Jerusalem". The Centurion was not filled with the lies of the Pharisees that needed to be purged from their conscience.

The thing that gets me is how you defend your errors. You have no room to be taught.

So you are saying that Peter was NOT converted in Gethsemane?

"Peter denied the Man of sorrows in his acquaintance with grief in the hour of his humiliation. But he afterward repented and was reconverted. He had true contrition of soul, and gave himself afresh to his Saviour. With blinding tears he makes his way to the solitudes of the garden of Gethsemane, and there prostrates himself where he saw his Saviour’s prostrate form, when the bloody sweat was forced from his pores by his great agony. Peter remembers with remorse that he was asleep when Jesus prayed during those fearful hours. His proud heart breaks, and penitential tears moisten the sods so recently stained with the bloody sweat-drops of God’s dear Son. He left that garden a converted man. He was ready then to pity the tempted. He was humbled, and could sympathize with the weak and erring. He could caution and warn the presumptuous, and was fully fitted to strengthen his brethren.—Testimonies for the Church 3:416.{GW92 401.1}

But he didn't receive the Early Rain Holy Spirit until Pentecost 50 days later, and even after he had been baptized with the Spirit he fell to temptation...

Notice how Mrs White was shown that Peter was RECONVERTED? You speak as if there is no such thing! So you know more and are in comprehension of the Spirit more than Mrs White was? How does this concept of re-conversion fit with your interpretation? It doesn't and you know it, but you will argue of this I am convinced.

"In the vision Peter “saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter (argued) said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.”{AA 135.2}
This vision conveyed to Peter both reproof and instruction. It revealed to him the purpose of God—that by the death of Christ the Gentiles should be made fellow heirs with the Jews to the blessings of salvation. As yet none of the disciples had preached the gospel to the Gentiles. In their minds the middle wall of partition, broken down by the death of Christ, still existed, and their labors had been confined to the Jews, for they had looked upon the Gentiles as excluded from the blessings of the gospel. Now the Lord was seeking to teach Peter the world-wide extent of the divine plan. {AA 135.3}

Here God rebuked Peter for his preconceived notions. But this didn't happen until 3 1/2 years after the Holy Spirit was poured out on Pentecost. And the biblical evidence proves that Peter didn't fully comprehend this message until the Jerusalem Council years later after he was saying circumcision was necessary for the Gentiles to be converted.

And then after Peter began to embrace this truth and go to the Gentiles as God commanded, then others who the Holy Spirit had converted contended with him and rebuked him... They had received the early rain but they argued with the motivation God gave Peter.

"When the brethren in Judea heard that Peter had gone to the house of a Gentile and preached to those assembled, they were surprised and offended. They feared that such a course, which looked to them presumptuous, would have the effect of counteracting his own teaching. When they next saw Peter they met him with severe censure, saying, “Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.”{AA 141.1}

So either Mrs White was lying and Peter wasn't reconverted in Gethsemane the night of his saviors betrayal, and those others who had received the early rain in the upper room were not converted either or your comprehension of this issue is off.

I think you are not being led by the true Spirit of God in your comprehension of this issue again.

The quotes you are trying to say are immediate is actually a lifelong experience to most people. I cringe to think that you are arguing this point because you think that you are already there. That would make me very sad for you.