Yes, they matter very much. It's just that we understand the quotes differently, which, fortunately, we are free to do. I realize you choose to believe, based on your extensive study, sinners will destroy themselves in a symbolic lake of fire. If memory serves, you believe the lake of fire symbolizes the "sea of glass". How do you envision sinners destroying themselves in the "sea of glass"?

Well said.


It's difficult to imagine holy angels praising Jesus for the work of evil angels.

After he had sinned, his power to deceive was the more deceptive, and the unveiling of his character was the more difficult, because of the exalted position he had held with the Father. {DA 758.4}

God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power. {DA 759.1}

God prinicples are not of what order? The use of force. Satan and sinners will perish. This is the end result of sin. When they do, the universe will know that God's ways are just.

In the day of final judgment, every lost soul will understand the nature of his own rejection of truth. The cross will be presented, and its real bearing will be seen by every mind that has been blinded by transgression. Before the vision of Calvary with its mysterious Victim, sinners will stand condemned. Every lying excuse will be swept away. Human apostasy will appear in its heinous character. Men will see what their choice has been. Every question of truth and error in the long-standing controversy will then have been made plain. In the judgment of the universe, God will stand clear of blame for the existence or continuance of evil. It will be demonstrated that the divine decrees are not accessory to sin. There was no defect in God's government, no cause for disaffection. When the thoughts of all hearts shall be revealed, both the loyal and the rebellious will unite in declaring, "Just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints. Who shall not fear Thee, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? . . . for Thy judgments are made manifest." Revelation 15:3, 4. {DA 58.1}

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The inhabitants of heaven and of other worlds, being unprepared to comprehend the nature or consequences of sin, could not then have seen the justice and mercy of God in the destruction of Satan. Had he been immediately blotted from existence, they would have served God from fear rather than from love. The influence of the deceiver would not have been fully destroyed, nor would the spirit of rebellion have been utterly eradicated. Evil must be permitted to come to maturity. For the good of the entire universe through ceaseless ages Satan must more fully develop his principles, that his charges against the divine government might be seen in their true light by all created beings, that the justice and mercy of God and the immutability of His law might forever be placed beyond all question. {GC 498.3}

Satan's rebellion was to be a lesson to the universe through all coming ages, a perpetual testimony to the nature and terrible results of sin. The working out of Satan's rule, its effects upon both men and angels, would show what must be the fruit of setting aside the divine authority. It would testify that with the existence of God's government and His law is bound up the well-being of all the creatures He has made. Thus the history of this terrible experiment of rebellion was to be a perpetual safeguard to all holy intelligences, to prevent them from being deceived as to the nature of transgression, to save them from committing sin and suffering its punishments. {GC 499.1}

What is the nature and terrible result of sin? Execution by God? NO. It is death. Sin when it is full grown, brings death, James 1:15.

It is Satan's constant effort to misrepresent the character of God, the nature of sin, and the real issues at stake in the great controversy. {GC 569.1}

Through the plan of salvation, a larger purpose is to be wrought out even than the salvation of man and the redemption of the earth. Through the revelation of the character of God in Christ, the beneficence of the divine government will be manifested before the universe, the charge of Satan against God refuted, the nature and result of sin made plain, and the perpetuity of the law fully demonstrated. Satan had declared that the law of God was faulty, and that the good of the universe demanded a change in its requirements. In attacking the law, he thought to overthrow the authority of its Author, and gain for himself the supreme allegiance. But through the plan of salvation, the precepts of the law were to be proved perfect and immutable, that at last one tide of glory and love might go up throughout the universe, ascribing glory and honour and praise to Him that sitteth upon the throne, and to the Lamb forever and ever. {BEcho, July 15, 1893 par. 3}

The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan's deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Malachi 4:2. {DA 22.1}

Death is the result of SIN, not God.

Please state your position in a succinct manner. Thank you.

The problem with your view is that it is not the truth. Sinner do die, they are destroyed in the end. The question is the how that happens. You view makes God the problem not sin. But sin is the problem because it destroys, sin causes sickness, striff, and ultimately death. God is not the source of death. God is the source of life. "God destroys no man". There is no exception clause.

If all the EGW quotes were looked at together, a complete picture would be seen that shows that God does both; withdrawing His protection and destroying those who have rejected Him.

Just a reminder that there are only another 4 pages before this part 3 thread is permanently closed.

Did I ever say a symbolic lake of fire? I do not recall such a statement. But then, I'm not the only one here with faulty memory, right Green?

Ezekiel 28:17-19
17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, that they may behold you.
18 You have defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the middle of you, it shall devour you, and I will bring you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all them that behold you.
19 All they that know you among the people shall be astonished at you: you shall be a terror, and never shall you be any more.

Isaiah 13:8
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travails: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

MM - Listen to the following series of lectures and see if you have the same view afterwards. Four Readings from the Book of Transparency By Sigve Tonstad

The destruction from from the giving up, the letting go, the withdrawal (== God's wrath). There is no other way to reconcile the "God Destroys No Man" quote if God actively destroys.

The pages are arbitrary. I see only 10 pages in this thread. This is easy to change in "Member Control Panel" under the "Edit Preferences" and changing the default setting of the "Total posts to show on one page when viewing a post in flat mode: (default is 10)" to 99.

I wish I had the time listen to the lectures but I don't. It would be greatly appreciated if you summarized your view of the lake of fire and how sinners will destroy themselves in it. Thank you.