Going back to the original question of this thread -- who is the woman in the latter part of Revelation 12 and her remnant?

This prophecy is addressing the Christian church and how the remnant emerge.

The woman during the 1260 years is "in the wilderness".
This part of the prophecy clearly deals with the time period between 538-1798.
It tells us that church which claims direct authority and linage from the apostles to "sit on the chair of peter" is not the true church.
It is very significant that this matter is presented for we will soon be facing a time when this European based church that dominated those 1260 years will claim it is the true and only apostolic church with divine authority to tell people how to worship.

The Bible is clear in Rev. 12 that the main powerful and visible church of the 1260 years was NOT His true church. His church was in the wilderness, prophesying in sackcloth during those years.

After the 1260 years the "woman" was released from her "wilderness" refuge. Protestantism flourished and freedom of religion was granted.
This is represented by the "EARTH" which we understand to be America, "swallowing" the armies of persecution.

During this time truth became available to all. Righteousness in Christ, the Sabbath, Christ and the Sanctuary truths, all were rediscovered.
But something happens to the woman -- for it is only a remnant of her seed that are true to God's commandments with the faith of Jesus and the HIS testimony in the end.

We only need to look to Rev. 17 to see what happened to the woman-- she has joined the BEAST!

Yes, after the 1260 years God raised up the Adventist church to give the call to become one of God's commandment keeping people with the faith of Jesus.
But the message of Rev. 12 is for the world! For all Christians. Don't join the beast or the spiritualistic dragon!!!
The call is CLEAR --

Come out of Babylon -- which is in direct opposition to the popular and ever growing ecumenical movement and appeal to JOIN TOGETHER and form unity with the beast.
The movement to BUILD BABYLON is growing stronger every day.

Where do Adventists stand here?
Many will heed the ecumenical call and think the
"Come out of Babylon" is too severe and "old fashioned".
Why not join Babylon and "convert" the world?
Yes, Jerusalem in Palestine will be a central part of Babylon's kingdom. Don't go there to find God's kingdom.

There will be a shaking -- which will severely hit the Adventist church as many will join the popular side.
Two parties will arise in Christendom --
Those who seek unity of religions under a spiritualistic worship lead by the papacy and enforced by former protestants using civil power.

And -- there will be a remnant of the woman's seed" -- those who with perseverance cling to Christ, keeping God's commandments and have the faith of Jesus and His testimony.

Like their forefathers (the church in the wilderness for 1260 years) they too will end up facing persecution and fleeing into the wilderness for refusing to join Babylon.

So are you of the mindset that the temple needs to be rebuilt?

Why would they literally have to be in Jerusalem when they are seen in heaven while on earth? The 144,000 go wherever the lamb goes who is in heaven so why would it not be seen in Spiritual perspective?

In Revelation 14 the 144,000 thousand are redeemed and are seen in the heavenly Mt Zion, THEN the Loud Cry is given to the earth to call God's people out of Babylon.

“These are they which follow the Lamb withersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb.” Revelation 14:4. The vision of the prophet pictures them as standing on Mount Zion, girt for holy service, clothed in white linen, which is the righteousness of the saints. But all who follow the Lamb in heaven must first have followed Him on earth, not fretfully or capriciously, but in trustful, loving, willing obedience, as the flock follows the shepherd.{AA 591.1}

The lesson is for all time. We are to follow the Lamb of God whithersoever He goeth. His guidance is to be chosen, His companionship valued above the companionship of earthly friends. Christ says, “He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.” Matthew 10:37.{COL 223.2}

"I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time, to keep them from throwing their whole interest into the present work of the Lord, and to cause them to neglect the necessary preparation for the day of the Lord." {EW 75.2}

Old Jerusalem with it's sacrificial system and temple will never be rebuilt. But I am not saying that important events will not take place there.

I believe that the Tablets of stone with the Ten Commandments will be brought from their hiding place under Jerusalem and shown to the world after the Sunday law is ordered.

"Among the righteous still in Jerusalem (at the time of Nebuchadnezzar's siege in 587 BC), to whom had been made plain the divine purpose, were some who determined to place beyond the reach of ruthless hands the sacred ark containing the tables of stone on which had been traced the precepts of the Decalogue. This they did. With mourning and sadness they secreted the ark in a cave, where it was to be hidden from the people of Israel and Judah because of their sins, and was to be no more restored to them. That sacred ark is yet hidden. It has never been disturbed since it was secreted." Prophets and Kings, p. 453 (Until the Seventh Day Adventist Ron Wyatt was sent to discover it again)

"The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God's appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath." Manuscript 122, 1901. (Quoted in The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 1, p.1109)

I can see maybe one or more of the 144,000 being a part of that event but why would all of them need to be there?

The 144,000 are for a witness to the world like 12,000 set of Apostles proclaiming the loud cry for the very last days.

Do the 144,000 all get the impression to come to Jerusalem at the same time? That makes no sense. Or are you saying that the 144,000 are Jews already living there?

This quote says that the 'great issue so near at hand', referring to the Sabbath-Sunday issue, the Law of God vs. man made rules and traditions, is what purifies the church, preparing it for the latter rain. I take it (tell me if I'm misreading it) to mean that the initial persecution will weed out nominal leaders and laymen alike. Lord help us to remain faithful in the small things so we'll be prepared for the large.

The earth helping the woman in the past is the refuge that the persecuted woman found in the remote places of the earth beyond the reach of the beast and today is still the same - our own country living refuge which we should be transitioning to for our families while we still have the opportunity.

As shown by Ezek. 9, Rev. 12, there is an upcoming act of God (directly) that will "weed out" the imposters.

Let's look at a two more reliable references from the word of God: (we have much more but no need to do overkill lest we find we are looking for pegs and doubts to hang our faith upon)

"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts."

"But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:"

"And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness."

"Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years."

"And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts." (Mal. 3:1-5)

Now if anyone says this does not show a church purification then they are in need of "eye salve" (Rev. 3:18)

"For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire."

"For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many."

"They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD."

"For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory."

"And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles."

"And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD."
(Isaiah 66:15-20)

Again the Lord is shown to "plead" first (His Elijah prophet comes before the great and terrible day) yet he will then Destroy, and unfortunately it will be "many". Those who "escape" can only be those who are sealed (I will set a sign upon them).

So again, let us focus on what is next--church purification. it will then be seen that "Israel" will be pure and true (Test. vol. 5, p.80)

Let us remember that Satan hood winked the Jews (the religious leaders) in Jesus' first coming. They mis-read the Scriptures and taught he would come as the conquering King. He came in a way totally unexpected.

The same trick is used now. Almost all of us SDA are looking for Him to come in the clouds, yet, as we just saw he comes as an avenger for His elect. THEN after the Loud Cry and the work is done His long sought appearing in the clouds.

"And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him." (Mal. 3:17)

"Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem."

"The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God." (Isaiah 52:9-10)

That "bare holy Arm" shall indeed be powerful! No more shall God's true people be mocked, scorned or despised.

"And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name."

"Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God." (Isaiah 62:2-3)

Selah

Why don't you just say what you mean instead of weaving a bunch of texts together to hold the whole thing in confusion?

What Houteff taught, is that BEFORE the Sunday law, probation closes for Adventists, almost all Adventists will be killed, the few that escape (144,000 mainly composed of believers in Houteff as the "Elijah" messenger and who are somehow "the sons of Jacob"), they will then receive the latter rain and begin their journey to Palestine. It's only after this that "image of the beast" takes place.
The time of Jacob’s trouble (Jer. 30:7) for the 144,000, the sons of Jacob, supposedly now develops on their way home (Gen. 32:1, 24) to the land of their fathers. God changes their name--they will no longer be called Adventists, but receive a "new name".

God will give them, by some miracle, Jerusalem, where they will set up a literal temporal kingdom and have an antitypical "David" sitting on the throne and experience perfect safety and peace, from there they will evangelize the world, (loud cry) and Gentiles will come to them to learn about God, then probation closes, the plagues fall and then Christ will come.

The SR interpretation is built by taking the texts in the Old Testament promised to Israel who were to be the center of God's truth to the world, IF THEY remained faithful to the covenant, and then ignoring the New Testament realignment of those promises and thus, like the dispensationalists, coming up with a future kingdom in "old" Jerusalem.


In EGW's writings the "purification" of the church by the "shaking" is consistently presented as coming about due to persecution, when most will "renounce" their faith and join the popular movement. Only the ones fully anchored in Christ and His Word will stand.

There is no hint that everyone is to go to Jerusalem and live in peace and safety there.

And remember -- the three angel's message is to go forth NOW -- the message the church fails to give now will have to be given under very trying and discouraging conditions.

Let us continue with a most beautiful compiling of end time events:

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea....like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt." Isa. 11:11, 16.

"And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt." Hos. 2:15.

"...instead of giving all for Christ, many have taken the golden wedge and a goodly Babylonish garment, and hid them in the camp. If the presence of one Achan was sufficient to weaken the whole camp of Israel, can we be surprised at the little success which attends our efforts when every church and almost every family has its Achan?" -- Testimonies, Vol. 5, pg. 157.

Hence the reason for the imminent purification of the church, the destruction of the Achans of today, in preparation for the antitypical crossing of the Jordan.

It is now to be considered how this work of ("shaking"), separating, will begin, and also how the church is to hear of it. Years ago, the Spirit of God opened up the truth in vision:

"I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen," declared the recipient of the vision, "and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the Truth Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth.

Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people." -- Early Writings, pg. 270.

In this vision, we are introduced to a mighty message that is to be carried to the Laodiceans, and that is to commence the shaking among God's people. Then in subsequent vision and testimony, we are given to see the glorious sequel to this shaking.

"...Mighty miracles were wrought, the sick were healed, and signs and wonders followed the believers. God was in the work, and every saint, fearless of consequences, followed the convictions of his own conscience, and united with those who were keeping all the commandments of God; and with power they sounded abroad the third message." -- Id, pg. 278.

"Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; He will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert." Isa. 35:4-6.

"...It is impossible to give any idea of the experience of the people of God who shall be alive upon the earth when celestial glory and a repetition of the persecutions of the past are blended. They will walk in the light proceeding from the throne of God. By means of the angels there will be constant communication between heaven and earth.

And Satan, surrounded by evil angels, and claiming to be God, will work miracles of all kinds, to deceive, if possible, the very elect. God's people will not find their safety in working miracles; for Satan will counterfeit the miracles that will be wrought. God's tried and tested people will find their power in the sign spoken of in Ex. 31:12-18...." -- Testimonies, Vol. 9, pg. 16.

Envisioning this great day of God's power, the "gospel prophet," too, focuses our eyes upon those who, heeding "the straight testimony," survive the ordeal of the shaking, and behold face to face those wondrous scenes of future glory:

"Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken. But there the glorious Lord will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby....And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity." Isa. 33:20, 21, 24.

Then to this already glorious picture, Inspiration adds still another enlightening and heartening facet:

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.... But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation." Joel 2:32; Joel 3:20.

"But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.... And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord's." Obad. 1:17, 21.

These two prophecies of deliverance and of subsequent events, vividly reveal the wonder-working power which is to invest those who endure the swiftly approaching "great and dreadful day of the Lord."

And now as the day "hastens on apace" (Testimonies, Vol. 5, pg. 80), to engulf in ruin the Laodiceans who turn a deaf ear to the message which causes the shaking, virtually none but the sick, the afflicted,the outcasts, and those from the streets and the lanes, will be humble and lowly enough to respond to the warnings, to experience the transforming power of divine grace upon their hearts, the progressively sanctifying impartation of righteousness by faith, and to be among the gathered ones, as Inspiration thus further discloses:

"And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." Isa. 11:12. (Timely Greetings, vol. 2, no.46, p.37- 42)

Even so our King, let it come!

Blessings in your search for truth GLL. Our friend Houteff may be right on some things but overall his message is a distraction from the three angel's messages by elevating non-essentials to essential status in my view. Let's not let these things divide us. One of the strongest testimonies we can give the world is to respect one another's opinions especially where we strongly differ. Let's focus on the essentials of the message for this time, the law and the righteousness of Christ, not on non-essentials.

Brother, what are these distractions? If possible be specific, thanks.

Further, what areas does he "elevate" that is "non-essential"? Again if you can be specific it will help me to see if there is a mis-understanding. As a lover of the truth if I can see something I've missed am happy to be corrected.

Truth is never a distraction. Infact if we don't love it and embrace it in whatever way it comes, we shall be found wanting.See (2 Thes. 2:10)