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Revelation 13 #166265
06/27/14 04:28 PM
06/27/14 04:28 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
This thread is to discuss the issues raised in Revelation 13, in answer to the following posts in "Biblical Predictions of Antichrist & Sunday Laws":

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Would you mind summarizing your view of the mark of the beast?

Originally Posted By: kland
But you would consider the antichrist is religious, right? Re 13:12 "And it exercises all the authority of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and those dwelling in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

First: what is the mark of the Beast?

Secondly: who is the Beast?

///

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #166283
06/27/14 05:57 PM
06/27/14 05:57 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Everyone here already knows what SDAs believe. What do you believe? Please do not waste time arguing against what SDAs believe. Simply, concisely state what you believe. Thank you.

Quote:
In contrast to those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, the third angel points to another class, against whose errors a solemn and fearful warning is uttered: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." Revelation 14:9, 10. A correct interpretation of the symbols employed is necessary to an understanding of this message. What is represented by the beast, the image, the mark? {GC 438.1}

THE BEAST SYMBOLIZES THE PAPACY. In chapter 13 (verses 1-10) is described another beast, "like unto a leopard," to which the dragon gave "his power, and his seat, and great authority." This symbol, as most Protestants have believed, represents the papacy, which succeeded to the power and seat and authority once held by the ancient Roman empire. Of the leopardlike beast it is declared: "There was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. . . . And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." This prophecy, which is nearly identical with the description of the little horn of Daniel 7, unquestionably points to the papacy. {GC 439.1}

THE IMAGE BEAST SYMBLIZES APOSTATE PROTESTANT AMERICA. In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends. {GC 443.2} When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result. {GC 445.1}

THE MARK OF THE BEAST SYMBOLIZES THE ENFORCEMENT OF SUNDAY LAWS. But when Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshipping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of His authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome--"the mark of the beast." And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive "the mark of the beast." {GC 449.1} The prophecy of Revelation 13 declares that the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns shall cause "the earth and them which dwell therein" to worship the papacy --there symbolized by the beast "like unto a leopard." The beast with two horns is also to say "to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast;" and, urthermore, it is to command all, "both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond," to receive the mark of the beast. Revelation 13:11-16. It has been shown that the United States is the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns, and that this prophecy will be fulfilled when the United States shall enforce Sunday observance, which Rome claims as the special acknowledgment of her supremacy. But in this homage to the papacy the United States will not be alone. The influence of Rome in the countries that once acknowledged her dominion is still far from being destroyed. And prophecy foretells a restoration of her power. "I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." Verse 3. The infliction of the deadly wound points to the downfall of the papacy in 1798. After this, says the prophet, "his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." Paul states plainly that the "man of sin" will continue until the second advent. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8. To the very close of time he will carry forward the work of deception. And the revelator declares, also referring to the papacy: "All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life." Revelation 13:8. In both the Old and the New World, the papacy will receive homage in the honor paid to the Sunday institution, that rests solely upon the authority of the Roman Church. {GC 578.3}

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #166397
06/29/14 03:20 PM
06/29/14 03:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
James, please answer your questions. Thank you.

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: Mountain Man] #166417
06/30/14 01:32 AM
06/30/14 01:32 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
James, please answer your questions. Thank you.

The Beast was the Roman Empire (Dan. 7:23).
The Mark of the Beast was the denarius (Mat. 22:21)

Hope this helps.

///

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #166426
06/30/14 02:31 PM
06/30/14 02:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes, it helps. Is the beast and mark no longer an issue nowadays?

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: Mountain Man] #166468
07/01/14 06:39 PM
07/01/14 06:39 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Yes, it helps. Is the beast and mark no longer an issue nowadays?

It has and will ALWAYS be an issue in kind; but the books of Daniel and the Revelation were about the period surrounding the First and Second Advents:
  • the coming of the Messiah, His baptism, ministry, death and resurrection,
  • the subsequent experience of the first Christians, and
  • the fall of Jerusalem.
  • thereafter, the Second Advent: Christ coming in glory in final judgement and salvation.
But throughout history, the experience of the righteous has always been the same. They've always been made to suffer for being good, starting with Abel. The Books of Daniel and the Revelation however, project the issue unto a national and congregational stage played out in the Roman-Jewish-Christian drama over Christ in the first century.

The sixth plague (a many other passages) detail the return of the very forces just before Christ returns. First century Christianity around Jerusalem therefore, mirrors "our own" end-time experience on a global stage.

///

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #166475
07/01/14 07:39 PM
07/01/14 07:39 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The beast nowadays is non-Christian governments and the mark is its currency. Does that summarize your view?

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: Mountain Man] #166488
07/02/14 12:46 AM
07/02/14 12:46 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The beast nowadays is non-Christian governments and the mark is its currency. Does that summarize your view?

THE SIXTH PLAGUE

Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."

And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

-----------

Notice the beast and false prophet along with the dragon return, their lying wonders, and their assembly against the people of God. To get an idea what it will be like, consider what the time of Christ and the first Church was like leading up to the fall of Jerusalem. (Acts 4:23-28)

The USA will become beholden to an Atheistic power and Christianity will become divided between worldliness and opportunism on the one hand and faithfulness to Jesus on the other. And the latter will be persecuted. (Luke 16:13-15)

This is how Jesus describes the state of the world body of believers at that time, "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing' — and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked." (Rev. 3:15-17)

///

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: James Peterson] #166505
07/02/14 03:16 PM
07/02/14 03:16 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
Originally Posted By: James Peterson

The USA will become beholden to an Atheistic power and Christianity will become divided between worldliness and opportunism on the one hand and faithfulness to Jesus on the other. And the latter will be persecuted. (Luke 16:13-15)

///
I believe you are describing the 6th kingdom of Daniel. It has mostly fallen, and the 7th is starting to set up and come into play.

But your statement is hinting at the attitude of the 7th, excepting it will be the persecutor of those who it determines as "wordly", that is, not following what it determines as "Christian".

Re 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Queen, widow, her. Why depicted of female gender?

Re: Revelation 13 [Re: kland] #166513
07/02/14 04:30 PM
07/02/14 04:30 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline OP
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
The USA will become beholden to an Atheistic power and Christianity will become divided between worldliness and opportunism on the one hand and faithfulness to Jesus on the other. And the latter will be persecuted. (Luke 16:13-15)

I believe you are describing the 6th kingdom of Daniel. It has mostly fallen, and the 7th is starting to set up and come into play. But your statement is hinting at the attitude of the 7th, excepting it will be the persecutor of those who it determines as "wordly", that is, not following what it determines as "Christian". Re 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Queen, widow, her. Why depicted of female gender?


Lest the thread wander off into unknown territory, why not tell us who is the beast and what is its mark. Or do you subscribe, like Mountain Man, to Ellen White's theology?

///

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