Daryl, rather than deleting it I put a notice at the beginning advising readers that I've made statements along the way that are incorrect and suggesting that they read my Feb 11 post on page 6 if they want an overview of the topic from my current perspective before they read the rest of the thread. So, I'm in agreement with leaving things as they are.

Interesting Roseangela regarding those errors. I agree that Ellen White may have made some. I don't think these statements are errors of course. You agree that errors in inspired writings are rare I think. I read her secretary's phrase 'if possible' as qualifying the person's ability to see 'the harmony that exists', not as being an admission that there may be no harmony or that her statements on this topic are untrue. It is one thing to mistake a person's identity. It's another under inspiration to make a misinterpretation of the ritual law.

Regarding your second point, I made four posts of Jan 28 on page five. The third post deals with your objection.

I haven't heard back yet from any of the scholars or institutions I quaried on my interpretation of the flood account and how it establishes the 364 day calendar in scripture, but what is your initial reaction to it? It's the fourth post I made on Jan 28 on page five.

Mark,

Any time a new difficulty arises, you solve it by proposing a new rule for the AB calendar. I can't agree with this rule that only the day of atonement followed the lunar calendar, while all the other feasts followed the solar calendar; there is no basis for this in the Bible, and God is not a God of confusion.
While many things have been said about this AB calendar, I haven’t seen any concrete argument which could help SDAs to present their position about October 22/23, 1844 in a clear and precise way. Juarez’s position, however, proves that the 2300-day prophecy was fulfilled to the very day and hour. Both the beginning and the ending dates of this prophecy fall on a day of atonement, and the middle of the seventieth week falls exactly on a Passover supper.

For the sake of those not so familiar with astronomy, I would like to explain that the Julian Day dating method is a dating system that has been in use for centuries by astronomers, geophysicists, chronologers, and others who needed to have an unambiguous dating system based on continuing day counts. For dates on or before 4 October 1582, this dating system uses the Julian calendar; for dates on or after 15 October 1582, the Gregorian calendar is used.
Here is the Julian Day Converter of the U.S. Naval Observatory:
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.html

We know that Christ was crucified on a Friday during the Passover week which, according to the synoptics, was a Nisan 15. This permits us to choose the year 31 AD for Christ’s crucifixion instead of the year 30 AD, which only admits a Friday as a Nisan 14. We know that the crucifixion occurred in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy. So, from there, we have to go 486.5 years (69.5 weeks) backwards to find the initial date of the 2300 days, and 1813.5 years forward to find their final date. Let’s test this.

If you go to the Julian Day Converter of the U.S. Naval Observatory and type October 23, 1844 (for those who haven’t read Juarez’s book: this date fell on the most part of October 23 in Jerusalem, but on the most part of October 22 in the U.S., owing to the difference in time zone) 13:00 hr UT (1 pm, equivalent to 3 pm in Jerusalem, the hour of the evening sacrifice, which closed the ceremonies of the day of atonement), you obtain the julian day 2394863.04167. Subtracting 1813.5 years from this, or 662366.7297 days (1813.5 x 365.2422), we obtain the julian day 1732496.31197. Now type this in the box “julian date” and choose “date” instead of “JD”. You obtain April 26, 31 AD, 19:29 hr UT (5:30pm in Jerusalem), that is, Thursday evening, at the time of the Passover supper, which began at sunset.

“While the disciples were contending for the highest place in the promised kingdom, Christ girded Himself, and performed the office of a servant, by washing the feet of those who had called Him Lord. He, the spotless One, was about to offer Himself as a sin-offering for the world; and as He ate the Passover with His disciples, He put and end to the sacrifices which for four thousand years had been offered. In the place of the national festival which the Jewish people had observed, He instituted the memorial service, the ordinance of feet washing and the sacramental supper, to be observed through all time by His followers in every country. These should ever repeat Christ’s act, that all may see that true service calls for unselfish ministry” (ST, May 16, 1900).

P.S. I'll comment on the Genesis account later.

Re your objection that I’m changing the rules, as I learn more about the calendar, I do find out new things. If you read the thread through though, you’ll see that my basic understanding of the calendar structure is the same. I did modify my intercalation method for the solar year slightly. Where I’ve changed my position significantly though is in how the Hebrew feasts fit within the calendar. In my earlier posts I thought that the feasts were all set using the lunar part of the AB calendar but after looking at it more closely I see now that the lunar part was used only for the new moon feasts and the Day of Atonement. This is supported in the DSS manuscripts and in the scripture that I’ve cited on page 5 and 6 of the thread.

Regarding your calculation, before using a Julian day count, one has to make adjustments to reconcile it to the calendar that the person is using, in your case, the Karaite. In the prophecy of Daniel 9 I think we both agree that the half of a year runs from the Passover to the Day of Atonement. If you use the Karaite calendar to calculate the time between the Passover and the Day of Atonement it is about 10 days less than a Julian half-year. The ten day difference is made up of Tishri 10 to 14 which is the midpoint of the year on the Karaite calendar, and another six days which is the difference between the Karaite half-year and the Julian half-year. So, 10 days less than a Julian half-year would mean that the number you use to find the Karaite date is approximately 1813 + (.5 x365.2422 – 10)/365.2422. This is the number you would multiply by 365.2422 to get the days to subtract in your equation from the day court for 1844. This should result in an April 16 Julian date in 31AD. The reason it does not work out to the April 26 date is probably because the phases of the moon are not synchronized with the solar cycle.

I'll try to explain better what I am getting at in my last paragraph of my last post. If you pick a lunar date in 2006, for example, the Passover on a lunar calendar and use the solar year to find the Passover 100 years ago, you will not get the right date. I think you might come close if the prior year you're aiming for is a multiple of 19 and you use the Karaite or Rabbinical calendar.

Mark,

The 2300-year prophecy has to do with solar years, and it's not necessary to synchronize anything. The solar and lunar calendars are periodically synchronized and, in a long succession of years, are equivalent. It's very simple. From the middle of the 70th week there are 486.5 solar years up to the starting point and 1813.5 years up to the finishing point. Since 0.5 solars years are six months, a month of April in 31 AD necessarily requires a month of October both at the beginning and at the end of the prophetic period. Since the exact initial date is unknown, and you question the date which marks the middle of the 70th week, then let's take the final date. From October 23, 1844, just go back 1813.5 years and you will arrive at April 26, 31 AD - which, by the way, is the 14th/15th day of the lunar month. And from there you go back another 486.5 years and arrive at October 29, 457 BC - which, by the way, is the 10th day of the lunar month. So the scheme is

Tishri 10 ---- Nisan 14/15 ---- Tishri 10

Which makes perfect sense. The middle point of the 70th week is Passover/Unleavened Bread, and the prophecy begins and ends on a Day of Atonement. We don’t know when Artaxerxes's decree was issued, but when could we say it went into effect? First, Tishri 10 is the day when the sanctuary is cleansed, and the prophecy of the 2300 evenings and mornings has to do with the cleansing of the sanctuary. Second, Tishri 10 was the day when the Jubilee began (Lev. 23:8,9), and the seventy weeks of Daniel 9 are equivalent to 10 jubilees.
7 x 7 years = 49 years
490 : 49 = 10 jubilees.

P.S. I've been trying to get Juarez to participate in the discussion, but I couldn't contact him. His wife said he is spending most of the time at his farm now, and there is no telephone there (and, therefore, no Internet available).

Thanks for inviting Juarez, Rosangela.

Sorry I can't agree with you on your calculation. You should check your assumptions with an astronomer.

I agree that Oct 22 is a valid anchor date - the only one we know with complete certainty.

31 and 457 are also known, but the exact date is still not known exactly. I may try to work backwards like you've suggested, but using the AB calendar. In the mean time, I'll be interested to hear your comments on Gen 7 and 8 and the 364 day year.

Mark,

These are not my assumptions - they are Juarez's conclusions. Let me add that Juarez spent two years with astronomers in observatories of England and the U.S. as he worked in his research. In a previous discussion about 1844 I had at VOAF some years ago with someone from that website against Ellen White and the SDA church, Juarez participated and helped with the astronomical aspect, and we had a great discussion. It’s a pity he isn’t participating now.

I've read and re-read the Genesis account, and what I saw was just one period of 150 days, from the 17th day of the second month to the 17th day of the seventh month. Ellen White mentions these 5 months in PP 105. What you propose is that there was a period from the 17th day of the seventh month to the 1st day of the tenth month that should be discarded, and that a new period of 150 days begins from the 1st day of the tenth month to the 27th day of the second month (although this period is of just 147 days). But what is the basis for discarding the period from the 17th day of the seventh month to the 1st day of the tenth month, during which the waters were receding, and initiating a new period of 150 days after that?

There are two references to 150 days in the flood account – one in Gen 7:24 and one in 8:3. The question I’ve asked some Hebrew scholars to answer is whether the second reference to 150 days is the same period as the first period – the second to the seventh month – or is it a subsequent period. As you read these verses, what does it sound like to you? To me it sounds like from the time the rain first fell until the ark settled on Ararat was 150 days and that it took another 150 days from the time the tops of the other mountains first appeared until the earth was dry.

If verse 8:3 is indeed a second 150 day period, then wouldn’t we be justified in examining the remaining dates in the account to determine the starting and ending points? Most agree that the first period runs from the second to the seventh month. So if there is a second period and my suggestion for the second period is not right, what starting and ending points would you use that add up to 150 days and that fit the context?

quote:

---

7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth [month], on the first [day] of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
8:14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.

---

That’s the point. I don’t see two periods of 150 days, but just one.

The NETBible ( http://www.bible.org/netbible/ ) translates the text in this way:

7:24 The waters prevailed over the earth for 150 days. 8:1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and domestic animals that were with him in the ark. God caused a wind to blow over the earth and the waters receded. 8:2 The fountains of the deep and the floodgates of heaven were closed, and the rain stopped falling from the sky. 8:3 The waters kept receding steadily from the earth, so that they had gone down by the end of the hundred and fifty days. 8:4 On the seventeenth day of the seventh month, the ark came to rest on one of the mountains of Ararat.

The text says that the waters had gone down by the end of the 150 days (v.3), and that on the 17th day of the 7th month (exactly at the end of the 150 days) the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat (v.4). If the second reference to 150 days came after verse 4, you might still try to defend that there was a second period, but as the text is, I don’t see how a second period of 150 days can be defended.