Keep spruing your garbage Jamesofthunder. I won't even waste my time trying to reason with you as you are convinced that not only are you right but that you are some type of prophet. We've seen your postings of your "dreams and revelations". I for one see clearly your deception in full bloom. Let the people beware.

One day we shall see who is standing brother. This will be the last time I address you and must hold to counsel:

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly , lest you be like him " (Proverbs 26:4)

Keep trying to tell the people here on this site you are a prophet brother, they will, if not already, know that your self- delusion runs deep.

Did Mr. Houteff advocate dress & diet reform in the modern age?
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"Did Mr. Houteff advocate dress & diet reform in the modern age?"

Oh yes, absolutely! In his very first work (Shepherd's Rod, volume 1) he stated in the preface--" It is the intention of this book to reveal the truth of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7, but the CHIEF OBJECT of this publication is to bring about REFORMATION among God's people.

He was known for advocating sister White's counsel on dress reform. He also was a reformer in the medical arena. He continually warned through public addresses and even in the writings about how we as God's remnant people have adapted to the world in our medical treatments and facilities. Here is his specific writings on warning our church of their need of reformation.

Jezreel Letters to the SDA leaders

Particularly in letter number 9 he said, " Having returned to God and having tasted of this new experience with the Lord, His faithful people long to meet together and speak their blessings one to another. Being mindful of their gladness of heart, and of their longing to communicate His goodness one to another, He promises to write a book of everlasting remembrance.

We can now for sure take hold of God's promises and make
them our own. What a privilege and what an opportunity is now ours! Look and see what a difference there is between God's method for supporting His work, and the Roman system that is now carried on by the church: plate-passing, high-powered speeches, Big Day, Book Day, high pressuring, campaigning, selling, auctioneering, Harvest Ingathering, birthday offerings, Christmas-tree hangings, baby weighings, Dorcas sales, investment funds, and what not!

As none of these squeezings are Biblical, and as all of them are Pagan in origin and condemned by the Scriptures, they could not possibly be considered freewill offerings. Search and see.

Instead of Sabbath-keeping the day is devoted to money raising, and instead of a house of worship, the church is turned into a den of thieves -- disgusting to observers, and most discouraging for a member to invite a friend or a neighbor to a church service. Is there any wonder that God does not now bring many into the church ("Testimonies," Vol. 6, p. 371)?

'One's support of the timely Davidian message, and his living out its principles (baptism, Sabbath observance along with the rest of the ten commandments, vegetarianism, dress reform total abstinence from tobacco and alcoholic beverages, and all else contained in the Spirit of Prophecy), are the truest witnesses of his affiliation, and the only genuine visible certification of the fact. These are the only absolutely convincing evidences of one's worthiness to membership in the Davidian Seventh-day Adventist Association.'(Answerer, vol. 5, Question no.150)

Mr Houteff was brought before the elders of our faith and denounced as a heretic. But here you are trying to force his opinions upon the remnant like his minion.

I can only claim that everything that God has shown me has or is coming true.

I claim that the remnant will arise from the SDA church and the message of the Spirit of Prophecy is perfect. God never contradicts himself, but your Mr Houteff claimed that the time had come for the 144,000 to leave the SDA church and disavowed our faith and said some of the things Mrs White was inspired to write was not actually the truth.

He kept claiming that he had a greater truth than our Lord's servant Mrs White.

I have have never claimed that, because everything God has shown me directly through the Spirit shows me that what He gave Mrs White was perfect even in the great disappointment. She was wrong sometimes (end of probation/ shut door in 1844 etc), but that was not from God and she was corrected very perfectly. The disappointment was from God because He wanted to test the remnant but then the Spirit of Prophecy came to correct.

GOD NEVER CONTRADICTS HIMSELF and He said there would NEVER be another calling out from the church. We are to go to the end on this ship, but you want men to abandon ship. Hmm, I wonder what kind of spirit would motivate you to come on an SDA website to teach men this garbage?

And YES you are very correct that we will see who was motivated by God and who will stand very soon.

Sorry, but that' snot true. God is of light, truth and love. He NEVER leads anyone into darkness and great disappointment. The devil does that, as he did to Eve. Don't you read the Bible anymore?

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In continuing the Zech. 6 study we look at the first three chariots. We'll hold off on the 4th as it has special significance for us today.


Since God's church was not a pure and powerful church during the period of time represented by the valley between the two Holy church periods, then God's symbolism for His church during this period of time is represented by a symbol depicting the condition of His church at that period of time. For a church in the work of gathering souls, the most fitting symbol is a "chariot," and for its leadership, naturally "horses".

"And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord." Isa. 66:20

Says the prophet Zechariah: "In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD. " Zech. 14:20. As symbols to illustrate various lessons, horses are quite prominently employed in the Scriptures, being in every instance perfectly adapted, of course, to the circumstance or situation. In this connection, they represent people (the leaders of the church), for the sounding of their "bells" is "HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;" whereas "The spasmodic, fitful movements of some who claim to be Christians is well represented by the work of strong but untrained horses. When one pulls forward, another pulls back;" Testimonies to Ministers pp . 485, 490.

As there are, in the symbolization before us, four chariots to be identified, we must therefore consider each one separately, beginning with

The First Chariot.

One of the keys to understanding this prophecy is found in Zechariah's question in verses 4 and 5.

"Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth." [u]Zech . 6:4, 5.

Notice that these four Spirits are Heaven-born, therefore they must be Heaven-born messages carried by His church on earth.

"This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." 1 John 5:6.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24.

The consecutive order of the chariots indicates a series of gospel events. " In the first chariot were red horses." That the color red stands for bloodshed, the Spirit of Prophecy bears out: "As we were traveling along, we met a company who also were gazing at the glories of the place. I noticed red as a border on their garments; their crowns were brilliant; their robes were pure white. As we greeted them, I asked Jesus who they were. He said they were MARTYRS that had been slain for Him." Early Writings pp. 18,19.

The red border on the garments of this company being symbolic of martyrdom, obviously, then, the red color of the "horses" denotes the martyred leaders of the church before 538 A.D.

In response to Zechariah's question as to who the horses were and where they were going, the angel answered: "The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country, And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth." Zech. 6:6,7.

Though the angel's answer discloses the respective directions toward which the black, white, grisled, and bay horses went, It omits to make the slightest mention of the Red Horses, thus riveting the conclusion that the Red Horses were martyred and went nowhere so far as their final destination is concerned. This being clear, our next step, logically, is to identify

The Second Chariot.

"And in the second chariot (were) black horses," Universally, the figurative significance of "black" is bondage, So as the martyrdom of the early Christian church was followed by the Dark Ages of religion, from 538 A. D to 1798 A. D., it is evident that the chariot with the black horses represents the church and its leadership during this long prophetic period in ecclesiastical Roman bondage.

This fact is borne out by the angel's explanation of the horses' destination: "The black horses, " he said, " . . .go forth into the north country. " And "the north country" is the Biblical term for ancient Babylon, as is quickly seen from the following Scriptures:

". . .saith the Lord God; . . I will bring. . . Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, . ,from the North." Ezek. 26:7. Again: when the Jews were returning from Babylon to Jerusalem, God spoke through His prophet Zechariah, saying: "Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the North" (Zech 2:6), thus identifying Babylon as the "North Country."

But as we are dealing with the fulfillment of prophecy in the New Testament era, the north country in this connection must be antitypical Babylon---Christianized Rome---where God's people during the New Testament period have gone. This clear-cut truth concerning the second chariot, leads us to the exposition The

Third Chariot.

And there were "In the third chariot white horses." Since Black is significant of bondage, then white, being the opposite of black, must denote Liberty. Accordingly, the white horses with their chariot must be symbolical of the church following her 1260 year period of Roman bondage.

Said the angel to Zechariah: "The white go forth after" the Black Horses, to the north country. The white chariot therefore represent a free church, carrying a heaven-born message to the north country shortly after 1798 A. D., in the time of religious liberty, after Protestantism had broken away from Papal Rome. The only such message found on record is that of the Millerite Movement, of which we read:

"To William Miller and his co-laborers it was given to preach the warning in America. This country became the center of the great advent movement....The writings of Miller and his associates were carried to distant lands. Wherever missionaries had penetrated in all the world, were sent the glad tidings of Christ's speedy return." Great Controversy p. 368.

But though "the White Horses" went to the "north country, " the Millerites, or "First Advent Movement," was not in response to the call, "come out of her My people." This is made clear by Miller's own words: "In all my labors....I never had the desire or thought to establish any separate interest from the existing denominations, or to benefit one at the expense of another. I thought to benefit all." Great Controversy p. 375.

The concluding revelation is: "Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted My Spirit in the north country." Zech. 6:8. After the warning message by the Millerite movement had been rejected by the churches, in the fulfillment of the words, "have quieted My Spirit in the north country, "God withdrew His Spirit from them. In evidence of this, "the second Angel" announced: "Babylon is fallen." Rev.14:8.

Babylon at this time experienced only a moral fall. She does not completely fall until the time of the Loud Cry. See Great Controversy pp. 389-390.

The foregoing chain of facts surrounding the first three symbolical "chariots", shows that the series of gospel events which they comprehend terminated with the Millerite movement, in 1844 A.D., And the additional fact that the "white" color of the "horses" also denotes purity, show that the "third chariot" is symbolical of the church which of all the seven churches is the only one that is white, without condemnation---the Philadelphia church (Rev. 3: 7).

The Millerite, or "First Advent Movement," being the only one that never cast out any of its brethren, is consequently the only church which can be represented by the white chariot, and the only one worthy of the name "Philadelphia"---"brotherly love."

Ever true to God, it closed its brief but spotless career in 1844, its appointed destination. Having lived its entire life under the personal supervision of its founder, it was never new-modeled. Thus being without condemnation, as perfectly illustrated by the third "chariot" and its "white horses," it stands out in bold relief to the succeeding movement represented by the fourth chariot.

To be continued ....

"I was confirmed in all I had stated in Minneapolis,
that a reformation must go through the churches.
Reforms must be made, for spiritual weakness and blindness
were upon the people who had been blessed with great light
and precious opportunities and privileges."

"As reformers they had come out of the denominational churches,
but they now act a part similar to that which the churches acted.
We hoped that there would not be the necessity for another coming out."

1888 Materials 356, 7.
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"The principles of truth that God in His wisdom
has given to the remnant church, would be discarded.
Our religion would be changed.
The fundamental principles that have sustained the work
for the last fifty years would be accounted as error.
A new organization would be established."

1 Selected Messages 204 (1904)
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That the devil is doing his utmost to destroy the power of the Seventh-day Adventist church is true enough. That he is having considerable success is also true enough.
The devil would love to see this church destroyed.

Yet, we need to take a lesson from Paul.
(in Acts 27 we read the account)
Travelling to Rome on ship during a terrible storm it seemed the ship was doomed. Several sailors tried to sneak off in a life boat, but Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, "Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved."
And so everyone stayed with the ship. Yes, the ship did sink in the end, but not until they were so close that everyone could swim to shore.

So with the church, it may be battered and torn, but the safest place still is with the ship. All the "off-shoots" that have called people out have had very serious problems and errors, I have seen several of them.

The time will come when there is a great shaking, and we must be sure we remain true to our calling and not follow the multitudes that will be renouncing the truths.

But right now there is the leavening process going on -- trying to bring in false teachings to prepare people to renounce the truths when the shaking comes. There are movements also to disconnect and scatter those who want to be serious about truth. In other words the devil is preparing things in an attempt to wipe out the influence of the Seventh-day Adventist truth by pushing the members into any ditch he can manufacture.
The question is -- will we join him or will we "strengthen that which remains" and point people to a full commitment to Jesus which alone will enable them to stand.



Also we MUST read EGW's words in context.
Throughout her history she was upset with people who took her writings of warning and reproof and turned them against the church itself.

View the context of your quotes in the passage below, and see that we as church members are to stand firm against the devil's invasions, NOT call people out of the church

This counsel applied in 1893.
And probably to every Protestant church for a period.

Staying with the ship was specific advice from "the angel of God"
who stood with Paul that night, "whose I am, and whom I serve."
(Acts 27:23)

This could only be Christ.

"We hoped that there would not be the necessity
for another coming out."

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