GLL, you've reposted Victor Houteff's view on Zech 6. I was hoping you'd share his view on the horses of Revelation 6.

I agree with VH that there is a connection in Zech 6 between the black horse and Babyon. Whereas VH says it is the church in bondage to Babylon, I view the black horse as Babylon itself because this horse, Babylon is responsible for silencing the voice of the Holy Spirit. We have the same picture in Revelation 11 where the Two Witnesses bare their testimony to Babylon/Egypt for 3.5 years but are slain and silenced:

So the picture in Zech 6 is that Babylon becomes a world ruler (still future when the mortal wound is fully healed) but Christ, the rider on the white horse challenges the dominion of Babylon. The white horse follows or pursues the black horse into the north. Outwardly the challenge fails because Babylon is apparently successful in silencing the voice of the Holy Spirit. The saints are not allowed to buy or sell and finally condemned to death. At the death sentence of the highest earthly authorities it seems as though Babylon wins and the Two Witnesses will be forever silenced but this is the prelude to the greatest deliverance of God's people ever recorded.

Mark-"GLL, you've reposted Victor Houteff's view on Zech 6. I was hoping you'd share his view on the horses of Revelation 6."

Yes, I did. The reason is because I wanted to make sure we have a clear view of Zech 6 lesson before comparing that to Rev. 6 horses. Sorry, should have made that clear. Hope to get to the other question and points shortly.

If you look at the four seals broadly, it becomes immediately obvious that nothing good is happening at all. From the first to the last, all the riders ride out to conquer. The one difference is the first rider: he rides out with a bow with no arrows and a crown on his head. The rest are clearly following after him in judgement by sword (No.2), famine (No.3) and pestilence (No.4, i.e. by sword, hunger, "death" which is disease, and beasts).

Finally, the fifth seal reveals the trouble which the children of God had experienced. They cry out like Abel, but like Abel are told to wait a little longer.

Somehow, these five seals seem to suggest the preaching of the gospel accompanied by trials, tribulations and judgement in the world, times of turmoil in which the saints get caught up and have to endure sorrow and pain. Viewed broadly, that is their meaning.

It takes a while to appreciate the symbolism, not minutely as the meaning of color or object but more like, taken together, what is the trend of progression. I realized that this morning.

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The first white horse in Rev. 6:2 is explained as follows. As you read this detailed explanation, the facts dis-prove our long time held denomination view that this horse represents a time in the Christian dispensation. The points raised and clarity should make us all consider that God has truth revealed in ways that we should acknowledge, even as it causes new ideas and views of old ideas and shortcomings.

Question:
"What Biblical proof have you for placing as you do the
seals of Revelation, chapters four to seven and the first part of the eighth? Why make them span the entire world's history, when the Seventh-day Adventist denomination has been teaching for years that they begin after the crucifixion?"

Answer:
The questioner has a perfect right to ask for Biblical proof of our interpretations of the Scriptures, but he must remember that our rights are as good as his. Hence, before answering his questions, we would like to ask him to give us but one Scripture as the basis upon which he can establish that the seals span the Christian era only.


Our being as well informed as the questioner on all the doctrines which the denomination teaches, and of the proofs upon which they are based, we are free to say that the strongest and the only foundation upon which the denominational interpretation stands is grounded upon the presumptuous idea that the white horse and he that sat on him, going forth conquering and to conquer (Rev. 6:2), represents the early Christian church in her best spiritual condition.

This position is assumed upon the unmitigated presumption that the color of the horse (white) must represent the purity of the early church, and that the words, "conquering and to conquer," stand for her rapid growth after Pentecost.

We agree that "white" stands for purity, and that "conquering and to conquer" could represent the growth of the church, but what proof would that be if such an idea is contradicted by all other truth?

For example, we call the reader's attention to the fact that when John was about to be shown in vision the events in the seven seals, it was about sixty-five years after the Pentecost and in the period when the church was already declining from her spiritual condition.

The voice which he heard said to him: "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" (Rev. 4:1); that is, the event which he was to be shown was to transpire in the future, "hereafter," from the time John had the vision.

Now let us take notice of the event he saw. Says John: "I was in the Spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the back side, sealed with seven seals. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much,...and one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." (Rev. 4:2; 5:1,3-5.)

The event of which John prophesied was to transpire in the future from John's time instead of having already taken place.

Hence, the idea that the white horse with its rider represents the rider in her purity after the Pentecost is only a presumption.

Moreover, it is taught that the book with the seven seals is the book of "Daniel and Revelation," and that those who interpreted the seals are the ones who opened the book, whereas, a "strong angel proclaimed with a loud voice," that "no man in heaven, nor in the earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon."

Consequently, we would like to ask the questioner how could the men who interpreted the seals open the book if they could not even "look thereon"? Still further, whoever heard that the church could be symbolized by a man riding on a horse!

Furthermore, those who are fighting against the sealing message on the pretext that it contradicts the Spirit of Prophecy have themselves altogether closed their eyes to the voice of the Spirit of Prophecy by a flat contradiction of it, for they claim that the book with the seven seals is the book of "Daniel and Revelation," whereas, the Spirit of Prophecy, in perfect harmony with "The Shepherd's Rod," says: "Thus the Jewish leaders made their choice. Their decision was registered in the book which John saw in the hand of Him that sat upon the throne, the book which no man could open. In all its vindictiveness this decision will appear before them in the day when this book is unsealed by the Lion of the Tribe of Judah." -- "Christ's Object Lessons," p. 294.

The above quoted passage shows that this book contains the names and record of those who profess to be the people of God. Then, how could it be the book of "Daniel and The Revelation"?

We would not take longer in disproving the former interpretation of the seals, but we shall briefly prove the reason why the seals cover the entire history of the human race.

One of the proofs that the seals include the entire world's history is in the fact that the book with the seven seals is "The book of life," which contains the record of God's professed people, and also in the fact that it was to be opened in the day of judgment. Hence, it proves that in 1844, when the judgment began, Christ opened the book before the throng that surrounded the throne, and this being the Lamb's book of Life (which no one but the Lamb could open), containing the record of the people from Adam's time and on, it is obvious that the seven seals, which were broken at the beginning of the judgment, contain the entire history of the human race, divided into seven periods, which sealed the book up to the day of judgment. See our exposition on the seals in "The Shepherd's Rod," Vol. 2, pp. 194-221.

(Symbolic Code, Vol. 2, no.7-8. page 8-10)

First of all, neither EGW nor VH ought to have taken it upon themselves to supply meaning where meaning was already given. And meaning was already given. Jesus himself told John, "Come up here (in heaven), and I will show you things which must take place after this." (Rev. 4:1) Notice he said, "I will show you ..." He did not say "tell" but "show".

Secondly, the book was an audio-visual revelation of things pertaining to the Kingdom of God on earth, i.e. of the Christian era; as Jesus said, "I will show you things which must take place after this." Therefore, for every seal opened, one of the beasts said, "COME AND SEE ...". There is no record of anyone saying so for the fifth, sixth and seventh time, but John did say, "... And I saw ..."

The first five seals, at least, therefore pertain to the fall of Jerusalem, the horses indicating the army of God (first in salvation, through the Christian martyrs, and then in judgment, through the Jewish Zealots and Roman army). The third seal depicted the famine that plagued Jerusalem under the siege of Titus. The fourth, the army of Titus himself laying waste to the Jews trying to escape the besieged city. The fifth seal depicted the believers of all ages crying out to God, as it were, for vengeance against the sons of men who, in their zeal for "Jerusalem" brutally cut down any believer calling attention to Christ and prophesying of the city's doom.

We can be confident of this because the book needed a judge of men. "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals." (Rev. 4:5) Only Jesus Christ was of men yet above every man and therefore equipped to be the judge of man. Which is the reason John wept. Caught up in the moment, he saw no Saviour, until the Lamb arrived from the earth into heaven to sit on the Throne of God.

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James, the "I will show you things which must take place after this" statement appears in Rev 4:1, right after the message to the seven churches and immediately after the message to the church of Laodicea, the people judged. According to Daniel 7:10 the books of judgment are opened when the Son of Man is presented before the Ancient of Days.

Adventism teaches that happened in 1844 and I believe it did for those who accepted the third angel's message. But Daniel 7:10 and Revelation 6 apply especially to the future when all the world is arraigned before the bar of God at the investigative judgment of the living. Daniel 7 and Revelation 4 and 5 show the preparation going on now in heaven for this greatest of events. To many this will be an overwhelming surprise.

The sealed book in the right hand of the One seated on the throne in Revelation 5 is the same book IMO that Daniel was told to seal up until the time of the end. Daniel 12:4. 1798 is the common understanding in Adventism as the start of the time of the end but if you take the statement introducing the vision of Rev. 4 and 5 literally, (that the book is unsealed "after this" referring back to the seven churches,) the unsealing of the books of judgment occurs during the final phase of the final church, Laodicea, the people judged.

Then SDA hold to a false doctrine.

First John sees Christ in the midst of the seven candlesticks (where he receives detailed messages for the Church) and then he sees Christ ascend into heaven. That ascension of the Lamb to sit at the right hand of God was reported in Acts 1. There the Lamb is pictured as having seven horns and eyes, representative of the Spirit sent into the world as Christ himself promised. We know that to have begun on the day of Pentecost. See Acts 2.

Therefore, the seven seals begin thereafter.

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The time of the end, according to Jesus Christ was after the day of Pentecost and refers to the time of the end of the Levitical Priesthood and the judgement of Jerusalem culminating in 70AD. Jesus said, "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand) ... " (Mat. 24:15) Such was the time when the prophecies of Daniel were understood.

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