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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Mountain Man] #167362
08/08/14 07:26 PM
08/08/14 07:26 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Quote:
True. A mind emptied of selfishness is free of selfishness. Jesus implants within newborn believers a new nature, a new mind, a new heart, new tendencies, new tastes - free of selfishness.

The carnal mind is not eradicated; it's subdued. Therefore, the new mind and the old mind coexist in the Christian; and, in this carnal mind, are the propensities to sin. But Christ never had a carnal mind to war against.

Constant war against the carnal mind must be maintained; and we must be aided by the refining influence of the grace of God, which will attract the mind upward and habituate it to meditate upon pure and holy things. {AH 330.2}

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: asygo] #167363
08/08/14 07:29 PM
08/08/14 07:29 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: asygo
M: 1. Empty your heart of its selfishness. 2. Christ can put his mold upon you. "The grace of Christ expels the selfishness that has hitherto ruled the life. The affections turn to God. The character is transformed. The man is filled with an intense desire to serve him who has done so much for him. {RH, January 26, 1911 par. 15}

A: However, "You cannot reach the full measure of the stature of Christ in a day, and you would sink in despair could you behold all the difficulties that must be met and overcome." – {MYP 45.3}

Jesus met and overcame difficulties throughout His earthly life. He thereby grew in grace and matured in the fruits of the Spirit. Obviously, therefore, reaching the full measure of the stature of Christ by gradually meeting and overcoming difficulties does NOT mean believers are ignorantly sinning in the meantime. The old heart is crucified. Selfishness is eradicated from the heart. A new heart, a new mind, a new nature is implanted. Like Jesus, believers are born again free from sin and selfishness. No, they are not born again mature in the fruits of the Spirit. Eternity isn't long enough to mature in the fruits of the Spirit.

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Rosangela] #167364
08/08/14 08:16 PM
08/08/14 08:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
The carnal mind is not eradicated; it's subdued. Therefore, the new mind and the old mind coexist in the Christian; and, in this carnal mind, are the propensities to sin. But Christ never had a carnal mind to war against.

Ellen White wrote a lot about the carnal mind, the carnal heart. She says it can be subdued, changed, cleansed, killed, and crucified. How can "all of the above" be true at the same time?

Quote:
How can the carnal mind harmonize with the mind that is assimilated to the mind of Christ? One is sowing to the flesh, thinking and acting in accordance with the promptings of his own heart; the other is sowing to the Spirit, seeking to repress selfishness, to overcome inclination, and to live in obedience to the Master, whose servant he professes to be. Thus there is a perpetual difference of taste, of inclination, and of purpose. {AH 84.1}

But the heart that is surrendered to God, loves the truth of God's word; for through the truth the soul is regenerated. The carnal mind finds no pleasure in contemplating the word of God, but he who is renewed in the spirit of his mind, sees new charms in the living oracles; for divine beauty and celestial light seem to shine in every passage. That which was to the carnal mind a desolate wilderness, to the spiritual mind becomes a land of living streams. That which to the unrenewed heart appeared a barren waste, to the converted soul becomes the garden of God, covered with fragrant buds and blooming flowers. {CE 79.2}

Jesus continued: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." By nature the heart is evil, and "who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." Job 14:4. No human invention can find a remedy for the sinning soul. "The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." "Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." Romans 8:7; Matthew 15:19. The fountain of the heart must be purified before the streams can become pure. He who is trying to reach heaven by his own works in keeping the law is attempting an impossibility. There is no safety for one who has merely a legal religion, a form of godliness. The Christian's life is not a modification or improvement of the old, but a transformation of nature. There is a death to self and sin, and a new life altogether. This change can be brought about only by the effectual working of the Holy Spirit. {DA 172.1}

It is the work of conversion and sanctification to reconcile men to God by bringing them into accord with the principles of His law. In the beginning, man was created in the image of God. He was in perfect harmony with the nature and the law of God; the principles of righteousness were written upon his heart. But sin alienated him from his Maker. He no longer reflected the divine image. His heart was at war with the principles of God's law. "The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7. But "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son," that man might be reconciled to God. Through the merits of Christ he can be restored to harmony with his Maker. His heart must be renewed by divine grace; he must have a new life from above. This change is the new birth, without which, says Jesus, "he cannot see the kingdom of God." {GC 467.2}

The carnal mind is enmity against God, and it rebels against His will. {RC 64.2}

Many, very many, who profess to be Christians, have not known God. The character of the natural heart has not been changed, and the carnal mind remains at enmity with God. They are Satan's own faithful servants, notwithstanding they have assumed another name. {1SG 189.1}

. . . the carnal mind must die. {2SG 261.2}

Sin did not kill the law, but it did kill the carnal mind in Paul. {1SM 213.1}

The illuminating influence of the gospel of Christ, and the sanctifying grace of God, can alone transform the carnal mind to be in harmony with spiritual things. {LP 124.1}

"The carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." [Romans 8:7.] In the new birth, the heart is renewed by divine grace, and brought into harmony with God as it is brought into subjection to his law. When this mighty change has taken place in the sinner, he has passed from death unto life, from sin unto holiness, from transgression and rebellion to obedience and loyalty. The old life of alienation from God has ended; the new life of reconciliation, of faith and love, has begun. Then will "the righteousness of the law" "be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." [Romans 8:4.] {4SP 298.1}

Every truly converted soul will carry the unmistakable marks that the carnal mind is subdued. {2SG 263.3}

If the heart is not wholly sanctified to God, if the will and affections and thoughts are not brought into subjection to the will of God, there will be a failure to carry out the principles of true religion and to exemplify in the life the life of Christ. There will not be a true desire to sacrifice ease and self-love, and the carnal mind will not be crucified to work the works of Christ. {2T 651.2}

Those who possess the carnal mind cannot comprehend the sacred force of vital truth upon which their salvation depends, because they cherish pride of heart, love of the world, love of ease, selfishness, covetousness, envy, jealousy, lust, hatred, and every evil. If they would overcome these they might be partakers of the divine nature. {2T 694.1}

In their gross darkness they view themselves with complacency; but let the law of God be revealed to their consciences, as it was to Paul, and they would see that they are sold under sin and must die to the carnal mind. Self must be slain. {3T 475.1}

You have apparently received the reproof, but not in heart sufficient to die to the carnal mind. You have not set to work to eradicate the evil. You have soon lost the smart of the chastening rod of the Lord, and rushed on in as great foolishness as ever, like a fool to the correction of stocks. Your love for self-indulgence has become a warring lust. {TSB 168.3}

The sinner has lived in sin; he must die to sin, and live a new life of holiness to God. Paul wrote to the Colossians: "Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."The apostle here refers to the death to sin, the death of the carnal mind, and not to the death of the body. {BEcho, January 15, 1889 par. 5}

Our faith is not proportionate to the light God has given us. The reason for this is that the carnal mind, which is at enmity with God, has not been cleansed. When our hearts are emptied of all selfishness, and cleansed by the Spirit of Christ, we shall be vessels meet for the Master's use. {PUR, August 28, 1902 par. 6}

[Paul] crucified the carnal mind which rises in enmity against the law of God. "Sin revived," says Paul, "and I," not the law, "died." {RH, March 8, 1870 par. 11}

The commandment came, sin revived; the law died, and the carnal mind lived. This is the order with the transgressor. Their spiritual powers are benumbed. Eternal things are not discerned. Their works are carnal, and their example is corrupting. {RH, March 8, 1870 par. 17}

Many are filled with self-importance and esteem themselves above their brethren. Such should let self die; let the carnal mind be crucified. {RH, April 29, 1884 par. 5}

Those who wage war against the commandments of God make it manifest that their minds are carnal; for "the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh can not please God." {ST, April 30, 1896 par. 8}

If you would work as Christ worked, if you would overcome as he overcame, go straight to him for help needed to subdue the inclinations of the carnal mind and the passions of the natural heart. Resist every sinful indulgence, every inclination to gratify wrong desires, remembering that Christ is all and in all, and that he is able to do "exceeding abundantly, above all that we ask or think." {ST, April 1, 1897 par. 12}

But let no one think that it is possible for human beings in their own power to reach the ideal that God presents before them. Our hearts are evil, and we can not change them. "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?--Not one." "The carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Education, culture, the exercise of the will, human effort, all have their proper sphere; but here they are powerless. They may produce an outward correctness of behavior, but they can not change the heart; they can not purify the soul. There must be a power working from within, a new life from above, before man can be changed from sin to holiness. That power is Christ. His grace alone can quicken the lifeless faculties of the soul, and attract it to God, to holiness. {ST, May 28, 1902 par. 3}

So, the questions remains - Are we guilty of sinning because our subdued, changed, cleansed, killed, crucified carnal mind is selfish?

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Daryl] #167365
08/08/14 08:22 PM
08/08/14 08:22 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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November 1, 1857 "It's Natural."

My heart is drawn out for the young. The great work of overcoming is before them, and the greatest task of all is, to subdue self, and obtain victory over natural besetments, hasty temper, pride, &c. {YI, November 1, 1857 par. 1}

I have seen professed Christians act out their natural infirmities, let their evil temper get the victory over them, and after the excitement has passed, reflection and reason teaches them they have greatly erred. They excuse themselves by saying, "It's natural for me to be quick, it's my temperament." With some, pride is a besetting sin that must be subdued, but their excuse is, "It's natural." {YI, November 1, 1857 par. 2}

I have heard the most covetous and selfish, when reproved for these sins, urge the excuse, "It's natural. I was taught to be so." O, what an excuse for a Christian, "It's natural." "It's natural" to give way to a passionate temper. "It's natural" to indulge in pride. "It's natural" to be covetous and selfish. {YI, November 1, 1857 par. 3}

Let me ask you professed christian, are you going into heaven with all these "natural" infirmities unsubdued? No, never! Heaven will not be marred with the presence of any with "natural" infirmities. {YI, November 1, 1857 par. 4}

Well since these infirmities must be overcome, what shall we do? Shall we excuse ourselves by saying "It's natural?" or shall we rather go about the work earnestly to subdue self, and take the steps necessary to be taken, to accomplish the object? {YI, November 1, 1857 par. 5}

"It's natural" is the excuse that comes from a carnal heart. The axe has not been laid at the root of the tree. There has not been a thorough acquaintance with the heart, and poisonous weeds that choke every good growth have been permitted to flourish there. These evils must be rooted out, these besetments overcome, or lose heaven. {YI, November 1, 1857 par. 6}

Look to the rock that is higher than you, plead with God in secret prayer for grace. All these "natural" infirmities can be overcome by grace. But the "natural," carnal, heart is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can be. If the carnal mind is subdued, your will not hear so frequently, "It's natural." Satan loves to hear this. His angels rejoice that you have not grace sufficient to overcome "natural" infirmities. They triumph at these words, "It's natural." But Jesus says, "my grace is sufficient for you." Yes it is sufficient to overcome and subdue the "natural," carnal, heart. {YI, November 1, 1857 par. 7}

Watch and pray lest ye enter into temptation. Earnest, fervent prayer will avail much when tempted to speak wrong. Say not a word until you first pray, then watch with all your powers. Set a watch before the door of your lips. Jesus knows just how hard you try to overcome, and his all-sufficient grace will be imparted, and with holy trust, you may rejoice in your Redeemer who giveth you the victory. {YI, November 1, 1857 par. 8}

E. G. White.

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: APL] #167367
08/08/14 09:54 PM
08/08/14 09:54 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
What does Christ save us from? The answer is easy.

It is difficult to fathom that you can have an answer to that, given that you cannot distinguish between sinful flesh and sinful mind.


It is written: Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Sin is the problem that Christ came to solve. Not some legal problem. It is not just mental but also physical healing. The atonement of Christ is not a mere skillful way to have our sins pardoned; it is a divine remedy for the cure of transgression and the restoration of spiritual health. It is the heaven-ordained means by which the righteousness of Christ may be not only upon us, but in our hearts and characters.--Letter 406, 1906. {7ABC 464.2} Our very flesh He has saved at an infinite cost.


That's not true.

Jesus said, "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him." (John 6:56). In other words, the new life in Christ comes only by eating His flesh and drinking His blood. It was called cannibalism by the Romans.

But Jesus said, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (v. 63) As it is also written, "Your word I have hidden in my heart, that I might not sin against You." (Psalm 119:11) And Peter admonishes us, "Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart" (1 Pet. 1:22) Jesus also prayed, "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth." (John 17:17)

In other words, such empty ideas like "the atonement of Christ ... is a divine remedy for the cure of transgression and the restoration of spiritual health" shows the complete lack of understanding of the First Advent. Jesus came to bring humanity back to God, to break the dominion of the devil. Now, in Christ, we have a King --- a representative with God in heaven, that which was Adam's in the first place and which he lost to the devil. It is OUR responsibility now to believe and act according to Christ's word. And HE will raise us up on the last day; as he has promised. "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:54)

***** STAFF EDIT *****

///

Last edited by Daryl; 08/10/14 04:55 PM. Reason: Staff Edit to remove inappropriate content.
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: James Peterson] #167376
08/09/14 01:21 AM
08/09/14 01:21 AM
asygo  Offline
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James, it seems you have no clue. You beat against the air. At-one-ment is all about reconciling humanity with God, so they can be "at one" again. (See what I did there?) Yet you complain about atonement.

In your zeal to disparage Adventists, you make quite a spectacle of yourself. I would laugh, were it not so sad.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: asygo] #167377
08/09/14 03:42 AM
08/09/14 03:42 AM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: asygo
James, it seems you have no clue. You beat against the air. At-one-ment is all about reconciling humanity with God, so they can be "at one" again. (See what I did there?) Yet you complain about atonement.

In your zeal to disparage Adventists, you make quite a spectacle of yourself. I would laugh, were it not so sad.

Instead of stifling your laughter, why not think about what Jesus said, "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:54)

How would you "eat His flesh and drink His blood"?

///

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: James Peterson] #167380
08/09/14 02:09 PM
08/09/14 02:09 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
How would you "eat His flesh and drink His blood"?

Jesus said that He is the bread that gives eternal life, that His words are spirit and life. To eat His flesh and drink His blood is to receive His words into the heart so that they become as much a part of us as what we eat and drink. It is to so abide in Him that His life flows in us and through us as streams of living water to bless those around us. It is to commune so closely with Him that we walk as He walked. Thus we eat His flesh and drink His blood.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: gordonb1] #167381
08/09/14 02:17 PM
08/09/14 02:17 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: gordonb1
Originally Posted By: asygo
If we have the reality, is the symbol still necessary?
Was Jesus teaching that the symbol is absolutely required for salvation?

Absolutely required, no.
But for the sake of testimony (witness) before men & angels, required when physically possible.
One could argue "I want to be a private Christian", but such denies the Son before men.
Jesus said "But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God." Luke 12:9.

That is true, but I doubt that Jesus taught this truth by saying "you mut be born of water." We are to confess the Lord Jesus lest He refuse to confess us. But that is a different truth from being spiritually washed.

I think we tend to ascribe salvific qualities to being dunked in the water.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: asygo] #167382
08/09/14 02:21 PM
08/09/14 02:21 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: asygo
I think we tend to ascribe salvific qualities to being dunked in the water.

I know baptized members who were shocked when I said that baptism is a symbol of dying to self with Christ and being raised to walk in newness of life. They said they had never heard of such a thing. Were such "born of water"?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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