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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: APL]
#168127
09/16/14 07:11 AM
09/16/14 07:11 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,577
Canada
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The freedoms we have enjoyed here in North America over the last two centuries was bought by people willing to give their lives to fight for this freedom.
Actually, I think there will be military action against the ISIS and they will easily be defeated.
However, defeating the ISIS isn't really going to solve the problems. There are a lot of groups, including Muslim groups that want the ISIS defeated. “Once the fighting is over, the political infighting will begin right away,” predicted Bill Roggio, of the Long War Journal. Getting rid of the ISIS will simply create a vacuum for another radical Muslim group to seize greater control in the Middle East.
Just like getting rid of Saddam Hussein really didn't help the Middle East that much, Saddam's Islamic government, in spite of his injustices, was considerably more moderate than the groups now striving for supremacy.
The world is rallying to "do something" about ISIS problem, so how should we love those ISIS soldiers?
Pray for them -- that God will give them a new heart and lead them into truth, before it is too late for them.
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: APL]
#168136
09/16/14 02:33 PM
09/16/14 02:33 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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So to summarize you last post dedication - how we love the ISIS soldier is to pray for them, that's it. The rest of your comment was not on topic. Green, MM and Daryl don't have answers either. Green gives a tangential answer that David killed Goliath, implying what? he does not say. But I take it green is saying that killing an ISIS soldier may be OK. Is that the loving thing to do? Green says of me, "As before, you don't answer a straight question directly.". But then he does not have a straight answer either. But we do have an answer, Christ has given it to us and shown us. Read Matthew 5. Read Luke 6. The answer is there.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: APL]
#168140
09/16/14 04:19 PM
09/16/14 04:19 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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...Green gives a tangential answer that David killed Goliath, implying what? he does not say. But I take it green is saying that killing an ISIS soldier may be OK. Is that the loving thing to do? Green says of me, "As before, you don't answer a straight question directly.". But then he does not have a straight answer either. But we do have an answer, Christ has given it to us and shown us. Read Matthew 5. Read Luke 6. The answer is there. APL, Obviously, God does not do anything that is not loving. God is love. Also, God does not inspire any action that is not loving. Would you agree with these points? I would assume that you would agree with those points. Now, let's move on to a weighter question--one requiring a little more advancement in spiritual growth and maturity to answer. We know that God inspired David to kill Goliath. So here's the question: How was it a loving act for David to kill Goliath?When you can properly answer that question, you will have at the same time solved most of the "mysteries" that you like to bring to this forum, and you will have at the same time touched on a substantial piece that has been heretofore missing from your understanding, leaving a void in your theological pragma that has been filled by erroneous beliefs. It is simply not possible to attain a correct understanding when beginning with incorrect assumptions. Look carefully at your assumptions. Re-evaluate them. You have assumed, for example, that many times when the Bible says "God" it means "Satan." You have assumed that when the Bible says "kill" it means "murder." You have assumed that when there is "punishment" it is "evil." Are these all correct assumptions? Do parents do "evil" to punish their children? As I understand it, some parents won't be in Heaven because they did NOT punish their children. Which, then, is more "evil"? If ISIS soldiers are destroying innocent humans and committing inhumane acts of barbarity, which is more evil: 1) To ignore the plight of the victims? or 2) To make war against these enemies until they should either surrender or be destroyed? You like straight answers. I will give you mine, will you give us yours? I would answer that it is more evil to ignore the plight of the victims, and let their cries fall upon deaf ears. God will eventually bring about justice with the same goal in mind: the eradication of evil. Is it right to pray for one's enemies? Sure. As long as they have a probation still. As long as I harbor ill will toward them. Prayer will be effective; if not for one's enemies, for one's own attitude and perspective toward them. But David did not merely bend his knees before Goliath. In fact, the Bible tells us that David RAN toward the giant. Why? That's another question a spiritually mature Christian should be able to answer. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: APL]
#168142
09/16/14 07:41 PM
09/16/14 07:41 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Obviously, God does not do anything that is not loving. God is love. Also, God does not inspire any action that is not loving. Would you agree with these points? You mean like giving laws for divorce? Perhaps the laws of polygamy? Now, let's move on to a weighter question--one requiring a little more advancement in spiritual growth and maturity to answer. Did the children grow spiritually from the time they left Egypt until the time of Christ? Were they ever supposed to fight? This does take spiritual maturity to understand what God really wanted. Jeremiah 7:24-27 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. 25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them: 26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers. 27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee. We know that God inspired David to kill Goliath. And your Bible references are? Did God inspire Israel to fight their way into Canaan? So terribly blinded had they become by transgression. The Lord had never commanded them to "go up and fight." It was not His purpose that they should gain the land by warfare, but by strict obedience to His commands. {PP 392.3} You like straight answers. I will give you mine, will you give us yours? I would answer that it is more evil to ignore the plight of the victims, and let their cries fall upon deaf ears. OH! Like the situation with Job and his family? Do you accuse God have a great crime here in ignoring the plight of the victims of Satan? Or what happens every day around the world today where murder, rape, theft are all rampant and it falls on deaf ears? Is this what Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount - to wage war against the likes of ISIS? Nope. What did Jesus teach? Across the sea from the place where they were assembled was the country of Bashan, a lonely region, whose wild gorges and wooded hills had long been a favorite lurking ground for criminals of all descriptions. Reports of robbery and murder committed there were fresh in the minds of the people, and many were zealous in denouncing these evildoers. At the same time they were themselves passionate and contentious; they cherished the most bitter hatred of their Roman oppressors (ISIS soldiers) and felt themselves at liberty to hate and despise all other peoples, and even their own countrymen who did not in all things conform to their ideas. In all this they were violating the law which declares, "Thou shalt not kill." {MB 56.1} The spirit of hatred and revenge originated with Satan, and it led him to put to death the Son of God. Whoever cherishes malice or unkindness is cherishing the same spirit, and its fruit will be unto death. In the revengeful thought the evil deed lies enfolded, as the plant in the seed. "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 3:15. {MB 56.2} "Whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca [vain fellow], shall be in danger of the council." In the gift of His Son for our redemption, God has shown how high a value He places upon every human soul (even ISIS soldiers), and He gives to no man liberty to speak contemptuously of another. We shall see faults and weaknesses in those about us, but God claims every soul as His property--His by creation, and doubly His as purchased by the precious blood of Christ. All were created in His image (ISIS soldiers), and even the most degraded are to be treated with respect and tenderness (even ISIS soldiers). God will hold us accountable for even a word spoken in contempt of one soul for whom Christ laid down His life. {MB 56.3}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: APL]
#168144
09/16/14 11:20 PM
09/16/14 11:20 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I am praying military intervention will stop ISIS. I fully expect Jesus to answer my prayers.
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168149
09/17/14 12:11 AM
09/17/14 12:11 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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I am praying military intervention will stop ISIS. I fully expect Jesus to answer my prayers. Really? Has military intervention solved the problems in Iraq so far? In Afghanistan? Is killing the solution to the sin problem? Military force will never solve this problem.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: APL]
#168154
09/17/14 01:24 PM
09/17/14 01:24 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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You are taking it too far. I am only praying military intervention will stop ISIS. I am not praying for world peace. Jesus said, Wars and rumors of wars will persist to the end.
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168156
09/17/14 01:48 PM
09/17/14 01:48 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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You are taking it too far. I am only praying military intervention will stop ISIS. I am not praying for world peace. Jesus said, Wars and rumors of wars will persist to the end. I'm taking it too far? What? Has military action improved the Iraq situation since 9/11? Is the world a safer place today than it was then? Is military action what Christ preached in the Sermon on the Mount? Is that the way to treat an enemy?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#168166
09/17/14 06:11 PM
09/17/14 06:11 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,462
Midland
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You are taking it too far. I am only praying military intervention will stop ISIS. I am not praying for world peace. Jesus said, Wars and rumors of wars will persist to the end. Don't you think Jesus is causing ISIS? Why would you pray against what is His will? Or are you saying that you believe this a rare case where disease, death, and destruction is not caused by Jesus?
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Re: How Are We To Love the Soldiers of ISIS?
[Re: APL]
#168174
09/18/14 12:46 AM
09/18/14 12:46 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I'm glad you are not Commander in Chief. I dearly appreciate the sacrifice soldiers have made to safeguard freedom from tyrants. Also the sacrifice police make to keep the peace.
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