#168659


What is the difference between love and hate? If you kill someone who disagrees with you, is that showing love or hate?

While I do believe that wanton criminals (murders, thieves etc, not religious or political non conformists) need to be dealt with in justice, I can't agree with civil penalties executed against people just because they do not conform with what ever is considered the norm in political or religious matters.

In the gospel dispensation government does not have the right to legislate a persons religious affiliation.

In fact we know from scripture that government will step over that line and
people filled with what they consider holy zeal for God will kill God's true followers.

America became great because God blessed this country that upheld freedom of worship and regard for the personal worth of individuals, but when that ends, we know people will kill thinking they are doing God's will, when in reality they are fighting against God.

It is not put in the hands of mankind to enforce religion with the sword.

Unfortunately, the question is not framed distinctly enough to give a straight yes or no answer. It must be "it depends."

Let's look at the capital punishment example. If one killed a murderer as the avenger of blood (the one whose duty it was to do this), but killed without hatred as the law required, it would have been an act of love--regardless of whether the one killed would agree with you or not.

How? It shows love for:

1) God's honor;
2) God's law;
3) The purity of the people;
4) Justice and righteousness;
5) One's family; and
6) The murderer himself!

God asked the avenger of blood to do this duty, so one's love to God is demonstrated by obedience to His command. When one loves God's law, he or she does not want to break it, but rather keep it faithfully. The purity of the nation depended on eliminating sin in the egregious cases outlined by God. God is a lover of justice and righteousness, as is evident in the system of punishment which God ordained. One shows love for his own family as well, both for their purity and for their safety, to rid them of the one who had murdered their relative; who so egregiously dared to break God's law. And finally, one even loves the murderer by killing him, for he is placed beyond the ability to break God's law further, thus meriting a greater punishment in the judgment day. (Remember Jesus' words that for some it would be better to have a millstone about their necks and be thrown into the sea?)

However, if one simply goes around killing anyone who disagrees with him--obviously, that is not love, that is hate.

The motive is the determinant factor, and only God can read the heart fully. Because of this, God gave certain "tangible" examples to us to help us "read the motive" of the killer. The examples help us to distinguish more accurately between hatred and love. Having two or three witnesses was one of the safeguards to ensuring that the penalties were not abused and innocent lives lost. But, in the end, it was and is always possible that mistakes are made. God expects us to do our best, and He reserves final judgment for sin to Himself.

Nowadays, we have civil governments which take responsibility for these types of judgments. It is God's will that we obey the government in these matters. We no longer have the duty of avenging our relatives' murders, because the government has its system of justice to deal with such.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

One also places him beyond the ability to repent and give their lives to the Lord. Thus depriving them of a chance to have eternal life.

That is why God is the Judge. He alone knows the future, and the possibilities for such things as repentance. Will Uzzah be in heaven? He had no opportunity of repenting for his sin in touching the sacred ark. Thank God that He is fair, and all will know so in the end.

What God has commanded, let no one set aside in favor of personal views, doubts, or questionings.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The question that serves as title of this thread spells the words One and Him with uppercase O and H. Is it right to assume you are talking about Jesus?

As they reasoned in Noah's day they reason today, when the warning message is proclaimed to fear God and keep His commandments. The wrath of God is soon to fall on all the sinful and disobedient, and they will perish in the general conflagration. Professed servants of Christ who are unfaithful, who do not reverence God and with fear prepare for the terrible future event, will lull themselves to carnal security with their fallacious reasoning, as they did in Noah's day. "God is too good and too merciful [they reason] to save just a few who keep the Sabbath and believe the message of warning. The great men and the good men, the philosophers and men of wisdom would see the Sabbath and the shortness of time, if it were true." They do not believe a merciful God who made men will consume them with fire because they do not believe the warnings given. This, they reason, is not in accordance with God. . . . {12MR 207.1}

God's love is represented in our day as being of such a character as would forbid His destroying the sinner. Men reason from their own low standard of right and justice. "Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself" (Psalm 50:21). They measure God by themselves. They reason as to how they would act under the circumstances and decide God would do as they imagine they would do. {12MR 207.2}

God's goodness and long forbearance, His patience and mercy exercised to His subjects, will not hinder Him from punishing the sinner who refused to be obedient to His requirements. It is not for a man--a criminal against God's holy law, pardoned only through the great sacrifice He made in giving His Son to die for the guilty because His law was changeless--to dictate to God. After all this effort on the part of God to preserve the sacred and exalted character of His law, if men, through the sophistry of the devil, turn the mercy and condescension of God into a curse, they must suffer the penalty. Because Christ died they consider they have liberty to transgress God's holy law that condemns the transgressor, and would complain of its strictness and its penalty as severe and unlike God. They are uttering the words Satan utters to millions, to quiet their conscience in rebellion against God. {12MR 208.1}

In no kingdom or government is it left to the lawbreakers to say what punishment is to be executed against those who have broken the law. All we have, all the bounties of His grace which we possess, we owe to God. The aggravating character of sin against such a God cannot be estimated any more than the heavens can be measured with a span. God is a moral governor as well as a Father. He is the Lawgiver. He makes and executes His laws. Law that has no penalty is of no force. {12MR 208.2}

The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice.--Ms 5, 1876, pp. 1-3.

Let's say my son tells me that his life goal was to hurt, injure, and damage himself before ultimtely committing suicide. On top of that, he will make every effort to hurt, injure, damage, and kill as many as he can in the meantime. I certainly would not be agreeable to such a plan.

What should a loving father do? Should I just beg him to reconsider? Should I just let him hurt and murder me in the hopes that my sacrifice will help him see his errors? If he does not change his mind, should I just wait for him to eventually kill himself, avoiding any kind of force to keep him from hurting himself or others? Should I simply stop providing him the food/water/shelter that he needs to live, knowing that his life depends on my providence?

What is the loving thing to do?

I did heard a pastor say he would kill his son to protect his daughter.

Green, you seem overly infatuated with avenging. Why?


What if you have a serial rapist, who really loves his victims' bodies, who has no ill will towards them, but he has to kill them because they might tell on him. The victims want nothing to do with him, but did he kill them in love? It wasn't hate. Would he be guilty of just plain killing them or murdering them?