Thank you, John, for answering my question. It is clear in the Bible and the SOP that too many people get baptized before they crucify their old man habits of sin.

6BC 1075
The new birth is a rare experience in this age of the world. This is the reason why there are so many perplexities in the churches. Many, so many, who assume the name of Christ are unsanctified and unholy. They have been baptized, but they were buried alive. Self did not die, and therefore they did not rise to newness of life in Christ (MS 148, 1897). {6BC 1075.7}

Tom, you're answer to my question insinuates that the new birth is a common experience in this age of the world. Rebirth is a radical transformation, not a gradual modification of bad habits.

4T 16
True conversion is a radical change. The very drift of the mind and bent of the heart should be turned and life become new again in Christ. {4T 16.4}

TDG 186
The heart must be cleansed from all impurity, man must be fitted with traits of character that will enable him to do service for God in any line. The process is invisible by which the leaven changes the mass of meal into which it has been introduced, but it works until the meal is converted into bread. So must the Spirit of God work a radical change. New faculties are not supplied, but a thorough change is made in the employment of those faculties. The natural inclinations are softened and subdued. New thoughts, new feelings, new motives are implanted. But while every faculty is regenerated, man does not lose his identity. {TDG 186.1}

TSB 135
This ingrafting in Christ separates us from the world. No longer will we love the society of the vile and contaminated and contaminating. We will be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Then rich clusters of fruit are borne. The graces of the Spirit are borne in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness. We have new affections, new appetites, new tastes. Old things have passed away, and lo, all things have become new. {TSB 135.2}

6BC 1101
The old nature, born of blood and the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The old ways, the hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up; for grace is not inherited. The new birth consists in having new motives, new tastes, new tendencies. Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit, have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ. When men who claim to be Christians retain all their natural defects of character and disposition, in what does their position differ from that of the worldling? They do not appreciate the truth as a sanctifier, a refiner. They have not been born again (RH April 12, 1892). {6BC 1101.1}

Here's what I posted:

quote:

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If a person is properly prepared for baptism into the SDA church, according to the commandment of Jesus and the inspired counsel of Sister White, what would constitute a sin of ignorance? What would not be pointed out before baptism?

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Here's what you wrote:

quote:

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No preparation for baptism could cover every possible sin which could come up. Any sin which a person would become aware of after being baptized would be an example.

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What do you mean by any sin? Any sin implies any sin.

You were asking what a sin of ignorance was in the context of baptism. I said it's any sin of which the person who is being baptized is unaware of at the time he's baptized. What else would it be?

How do you get from this (where I'm just restating the definition of "sin of ignorance") to the frequency rate of conversion?

Any sin? Like what? What could a thoroughly informed, well educated, properly prepared baptismal candidate think, say, or do that could be possibly construed by anyone as an unknown sin? Your unwillingness to provide a concrete example is making it difficult to understand your position. Perhaps answering the following questions will get us somewhere?

Could such a person (as defined above) NOT realize that doing unlawful work on the Sabbath is a sin? In other words, could they be ignorant of it?

Could they NOT realize that smoking, taking illegal drugs, or drinking alcohol are sins?

Could they NOT realize that eating unclean meat is a sin?

Could they NOT realize that Sister White is an inspired modern day prophet?

Could they NOT realize that being short tempered with their children or spouse is a sin?

Could they NOT realize that lying, stealing, murdering are sins?

Could they NOT realize that cheating on taxes, or exceeding the speed limit are sins?

Could they NOT realize that dressing immodestly or flamboyantly is a sin?

I gave you a concrete answer. I don't understand your response. I said, if you want an explicit example, here's one. Didn't you read that?

Mike

If SDA would excomunicate people on the same criteria you mentioned above, there wouldnt be all that many left around..

I've having a case of deja vu.

Tom, perhaps answering my questions (posted above) will help me better understand your position. Thank you.

Thomas, precisely. We should not be in a hurry to baptize people. Listen to how Sister White felt about it:

6T 370
The Lord does not now work to bring many souls into the truth, because of the church members who have never been converted and those who were once converted but who have backslidden. What influence would these unconsecrated members have on new converts? Would they not make of no effect the God-given message which His people are to bear? {6T 370.3}

6BC 1075
The new birth is a rare experience in this age of the world. This is the reason why there are so many perplexities in the churches. Many, so many, who assume the name of Christ are unsanctified and unholy. They have been baptized, but they were buried alive. Self did not die, and therefore they did not rise to newness of life in Christ (MS 148, 1897). {6BC 1075.7}

John, please explain what you mean by “it is a sin to insinuate sins of ignorance”. Thank you.