APL and Kland, you guys believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to murder innocent women and children. APL, you believe He does so because He is unwilling to violate their freewill. But what about the freewill of the innocent victims?

Well, MM, it seems you are saying something different than what I quoted you as saying in the past, albeit even near past. It seems now that you are saying Jesus only permits or allows disease, death, and destruction to happen rather than causing them to happen.

So, with this new view, who do you say killed Saul? That is, did Jesus slay and/or cause others to kill Saul?

You really don't see the difference, do you? Here's the difference:

1. I believe there are times when Jesus causes death, disease, and destruction.

2. I do not believe there are times when Jesus causes evil men or evil angels to murder innocent women and children.

Jesus never causes or forces free moral agents to do anything. In the case of King Saul, Jesus did not work to influence him not to end his own life. Jesus could have used His powers of persuasion to dissuade him. But He did not. He chose to permit it. For example, in the case of Abraham and Isaac, Jesus commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. At the last second, as the knife was on the way down, Jesus persuaded Abraham not to sacrifice Isaac. The outcome in each case was due to the actions of Jesus. In the case of King Saul, Jesus acted not to act to prevent it.

Well maybe I got you mixed up with Green. But I thought for sure you believe Jesus causes evil men and angels to kill people.

So you don't believe Jesus ever causes evil men to kill men, women, and children, to totally destroy whole cities, etc.?

My apologies then.

Thank you. Apology accepted.

What I don't understand is how you can feel okay about Jesus withdrawing His protection and permitting evil men and evil angels to murder innocent women and children. Can you please explain?

It appears to me that you objecting to us believing the same about this as you do. Maybe this is another case where it looks to me you are saying the same thing but you see a difference.

You say that APL and I believe Jesus withdraws protection and permits horrible things to happen. You believe Jesus permits horrible things to happen.

Can you explain?

Oh, I believe it, too. It's just that I don't see why you believe it. I mean, it doesn't make Jesus look too good, and you're all about Jesus looking good. Some of the unbelievers I know hate Jesus because of what you believe about Him. How do you explain it to them?

Do you mean how some ask, Why do bad things happen to good people?

Of which I ask, Given the circumstances, why do good things happen to anyone?

Good answer. But, no, what I mean is - I know people who hate Jesus because they believe as you do, namely, Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angel to murder innocent women and children. For example, they believe Jesus is allowing evil men to murder innocent women and children during the ISIS Crisis. They want to know why Jesus doesn't step in and protect them. They have freewill, too. Why can't Jesus honor their choices to live safe and sound?

What do you tell them? Do you avoid question? Do you ask a different question pertaining to a different topic?