". . . the outcome of sin is completely controlled by God."

I believe Jesus is free to control the outcome of evil choices.

So if a person chooses to rape another individual, Jesus empowers him to do so.

Yeah - taking that tack, when you comfort a woman (or man) who was raped, you can with a kind voice tell them that God allowed it because it was the best thing to do...

Why we we pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven is God's will is being done on earth? It is because God's will IS NOT being done on earth.

APL,

God's will is done in heaven, right? Do you think His will is not done on earth?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The will of God is expressed in the precepts of His holy law, and the principles of this law are the principles of heaven. The angels of heaven attain unto no higher knowledge than to know the will of God, and to do His will is the highest service that can engage their powers. {MB 109.1}

So Green, if there are rapes, abuses, murders, are these God's will? The answer should be clear.

Was it God's will that there be war in Heaven? Was God's will done in Heaven at that time?

You see, I believe it was. God willed that His creations have free choice. He may not have desired them to choose as they did, but in choosing for themselves, they were exercising their own free will, a freedom to choose which God had willed them to have.

That same principle is now at play on this planet. God wills us to have the freedom to choose. We have a wonderful privilege: the right to be wrong. When all have learned the distinction between right and wrong so well that they will never forget their lessons, He will put an end to the pain and misery of sin once and for all, destroying sin and sinners in the sight of an enlightened throng of citizens in His kingdom who see His great justice in acting as He does. Those citizens will never again choose sin, not because their power to choose has been revoked, but because they will never desire it again. God wills for everyone to have the power to choose both now and always. It is in precisely this sense that God does not use force and never will. He will never remove the freedom to choose. Note that this does not mean He will never remove the freedom to live. Nor does it mean that He will never punish.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Ah, so you still believe that rape, abuse and murder ARE God's will... These things which violate the precepts of His law. Quoting Green, "We have a wonderful privilege: the right to be wrong". We have a wonderful privilege to rape and murder! Fantastic. EXCEPT, we do not. 2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

You believe that is was God's will that sin exist! What is perhaps even worse, you believe that after willing that sin exist, that God will then execute sinners in the end. What freedom is that?

I don't think you understand what sin is or what sin does. Sin blocks our freedom. The only reason we have the power to choice is because God has intervened. As EGW writes: Satan tempted man to sin, as he had caused angels to rebel, that he might thus secure co-operation in his warfare against Heaven. There was no dissension between himself and the fallen angels as regards their hatred of Christ; while on all other points there was discord, they were firmly united in opposing the authority of the Ruler of the universe. But when Satan heard the declaration that enmity should exist between himself and the woman, and between his seed and her seed, he knew that his efforts to deprave human nature would be interrupted; that by some means man was to be enabled to resist his power. {GC 505.3}

Sin takes its victims as slaves, and removes their freedom, and this when it is fully developed, produces death, James 1:15 There is only freedom in the law of liberty, the law of God, James 1:25

Violation of the law of God brings slavery, not freedom. This is not God's will. The will of God is expressed in the precepts of His holy law, and the principles of this law are the principles of heaven. The angels of heaven attain unto no higher knowledge than to know the will of God, and to do His will is the highest service that can engage their powers. {MB 109.1}

I believe Jesus is free to control the outcome of evil choices.

I believe Jesus is willing to allow choices to play out the way they do for reasons that make sense to Him. He rarely shares the reasons with us. But by faith we trust Him. People who love and trust Jesus fare better than those who do not. People who get mad at Him and hate him are way worse off.

Jesus works to ensure evil men and evil angels do not exceed the limits He Himself sets. He permits them to choose evil but He reserves the right to manage the outcome of their evil choices. He is in control. They are free to choose but not free to exceed the limits Jesus establishes and enforces. Things play out the way they do because Jesus works to ensure they do not exceed His limits.

You also believe Jesus establishes and enforces limits. But you also believe Jesus respects freewill and allows evil choices to play out the way evildoers desire. How do you reconcile the two?

APL,

You claim that I am saying many things which I do not say, have not said, and do not believe. If you misunderstand me so easily, how shall I expect you to understand the Bible any more easily? My words, at least, are much plainer and in a modern English that should make them easy to understand.

I do not believe that rape and murder are good. I did not say they were. I said the freedom to choose was good. When you believe it is not good to have a freedom of choice, you will have placed yourself upon Satan's side of the question, for he it is who would like to use force to compel people.

It is certainly a privilege to be able to choose, even if that means choosing wrong. I stand by my statement. That does not mean that God wills for people to break His law. He willed only their freedom of choice.

That you cannot discern the difference between these two concepts is instructive.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.