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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170368
12/04/14 02:07 AM
12/04/14 02:07 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
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Let's look at every time the word "stars" is used in Revelation.
Rev 1:16 And he (Jesus) had in his right hand seven stars: Rev. 1:20 The seven stars G792 are the angels (or messengers) of the seven churches: Rev. 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things says he that holds the seven stars...
Since John was to address the letters to the churches to these "angels" or messengers it is generally understood they are the leaders of these churches.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him (the overcomers in Thyatira) the morning star.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. G792
Rev 6:13 And the stars G792 of heaven fell unto the earth,
Rev. 8:19 there fell a great star G792 from heaven, burning as it were a lamp
Rev 8:11 And the name of the star G792 is called Wormwood
Rev. 8:12 the third part of the stars; G792 so as the third part of them was darkened
Rev. 9:1 I saw a star G792 fall from heaven unto the earth:
Rev. 12:1 and upon her head (the woman's head) a crown of twelve stars: G792
Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars G792 of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170370
12/04/14 02:39 AM
12/04/14 02:39 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
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Who was given the KEY?
Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star G792 fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
The key is never given to satan. God puts restrictions on the demonic world that they are not allowed to pass; they can go so far but no further --- UNLESS they are invited by humans.
That's why its so important never to go to séances or play with those boards that talk back to you, or get involved with any voodoo type stuff, or mystical spiritual formation. That's why the apparitions that call themselves "mary" keep asking for the world to be "consecrated" to her so they can do more "work".
It also is true of the other side -- prayer unlocks the power of heaven in our behalf, we need to ask God to send His angels to protect us, to send His Spirit to fill us.
God gives us the freedom of choice -- both good and evil forces work hard to draw us, and which one wins is our choice.
God is much stronger than Satan, we need to abide with our Savior and Redeemer and then we need not fear, though the trend in the world is to open the door ever wider to evil spirits.
We need to pray more to our Savior asking Him to send His angels to encamp about us and our love ones and neighbors.
So to whom has God given the key?
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: dedication]
#170378
12/04/14 12:02 PM
12/04/14 12:02 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
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Let's look at every time the word "stars" is used in Revelation.
Rev 1:16 And he (Jesus) had in his right hand seven stars: Rev. 1:20 The seven stars G792 are the angels (or messengers) of the seven churches: Rev. 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things says he that holds the seven stars...
Since John was to address the letters to the churches to these "angels" or messengers it is generally understood they are the leaders of these churches.
Now that's an interesting thought I hadn't thought of. Could it be that something a leader of one of the churches does which unleashes satan and his angels to wreck havoc?
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: kland]
#170403
12/05/14 04:21 AM
12/05/14 04:21 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
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Now that's an interesting thought I hadn't thought of. Could it be that something a leader of one of the churches does which unleashes satan and his angels to wreck havoc?
I read your comment and then reread the list of revelation's "stars" and a connection kind of "jumped out" that I had never seen before. First -- I see the falling star in the third trumpet as the papal leadership leading the church into apostasy; turning the gospel water of life into wormwood. This would match your question concerning a leader in the churches which unleashes satan and his angels to wreck havoc. Secondly -- while the churches were all present in John's day, they also reveal a progression throughout the Christian history. And this progression shows some interesting links. The third church in Pergamos, shows "Satan's seat" is being established in the place where the church dwells. It's marking the rise of the papal church. But what's even more interesting is the promise to the fourth church. By this time the papal church is in full operation. The "leader" (the fallen star of the third trumpet)is seducing God's servants to commit spiritual fornication, it's the dark ages when leadership is leading people to know the depths of satan (strong language from those verses that certainly suggests truth to your question) And here we see God promising those who resist the apostasy a DIFFERENT STAR!!! Rev. 2:28 And I will give him the morning star. Jesus declares-- 22:16 I Jesus am .. the bright and morning star. EGW talks of John Wycliffe as the "morning star" of the Reformation. Wycliffe protested against the papal church (the fallen star) and turned people's eyes back to Jesus, the Savior. (The ultimate and true morning Star)
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: dedication]
#170407
12/05/14 10:10 AM
12/05/14 10:10 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Senior Member
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
Michigan, US
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First -- I see the falling star in the third trumpet as the papal leadership leading the church into apostasy; turning the gospel water of life into wormwood. This would match your question concerning a leader in the churches which unleashes satan and his angels to wreck havoc.
Secondly -- while the churches were all present in John's day, they also reveal a progression throughout the Christian history. And this progression shows some interesting links.
The third church in Pergamos, shows "Satan's seat" is being established in the place where the church dwells. It's marking the rise of the papal church.
But what's even more interesting is the promise to the fourth church. By this time the papal church is in full operation. The "leader" (the fallen star of the third trumpet)is seducing God's servants to commit spiritual fornication, it's the dark ages when leadership is leading people to know the depths of satan (strong language from those verses that certainly suggests truth to your question)
And here we see God promising those who resist the apostasy a DIFFERENT STAR!!!
Rev. 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Jesus declares-- 22:16 I Jesus am .. the bright and morning star.
EGW talks of John Wycliffe as the "morning star" of the Reformation. Wycliffe protested against the papal church (the fallen star) and turned people's eyes back to Jesus, the Savior. (The ultimate and true morning Star)
Indeed, the Papacy is in full operation and God's people are in danger of satanic delusion. No wonder that God is depicted as a flying eagle to protect His people in the three woes (Rev 8:13). The Papacy is originated from the fallen star, the Satan, the counterfeit of the true morning star. “Woe, woe, woe”, “awake, awake, awake” Only those men, which have the seal of God in their foreheads, will be protected and delivered (Rev. 9:4) from the unleashing of the Satan and his evil angels. God’s plan is the evil destroys evil. The forces of the evil destroy all the men without the seal of God, which are the evil people. “The grass of the earth,..any green thing, … any tree” symbolize men on the earth (Rev. 9:4).
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170457
12/06/14 11:36 PM
12/06/14 11:36 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
Senior Member
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 511
Michigan, US
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The first trumpet causes hail and fire mixed with blood that burns 1/3 of the earth, 1/3 of the trees and all green grass. The trees and green grass depict the mankind. Hail and fire mixed with blood indicate devastated condition of man on earth, which the first bowl of plague manifested as ‘a noisome and grievous sore upon the men’. The original teachings of the Apostles to the church was to ‘abstain …from things strangled, and from blood’ (Acts15:20). However, many Christians have given up the first love of Ephesus church nowadays and many have forsaken the discretion of the holy and unholy, and clean and unclean. 3 John 1:2 “Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.” God’s instruction remains the same yesterday and today, particularly in health message in this context.
The white horse of the first seal had a bow to prick a heart of man to repentance. Acts 2:37 “Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
We may conclude that the first plague is culminated from ignorance of the health message of the first church.
Our loving God of heaven does not disregard the warning of dangers unhealthful living that is of the first trumpet, which will bring rampant of diseases that will destroy 1/3 of the mankind of the last generations.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170500
12/09/14 12:40 PM
12/09/14 12:40 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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Karen, are you saying the Feast of Trumpets started in 1844 or shortly after? Am I understanding you right that we've been living during the seven trumpets which is symbolized by the Feast of Trumpets since 1844?
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170501
12/09/14 01:00 PM
12/09/14 01:00 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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I agree that we need to understand the seven trumpets and give the warning. But they are not just messages like the three angels. They are actual events. It's true they mirror the plagues, but they don't warn of the approach of the plagues merely by words. They describe events that are harbingers of the wrath to come.
Our culture is beyond listening to mere words. God is his mercy will send warning judgments to awaken us prior to the judgments that are without mercy. I'm afraid that for many of us, it will be too late when these start. May God have mercy on Zion.
Regarding the sealing, it is the latter rain that seals the 144000. I repeatedly hear folk claim that the sealing of Adventists takes place before the latter rain. But we must have both to be sealed - the early rain is essential but so is the latter rain to complete the work of the early rain.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170505
12/09/14 02:04 PM
12/09/14 02:04 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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By the way I think one reason for some of the confusion on when the sealing occurs is that Ellen White makes statements that the door of mercy will shut early for Adventists. Some read into that truth more than is there. While the door of mercy will shut earlier for some of us, this does not mean the those who pass the initial shaking are sealed. All of humanity living at the end will have to meet the final test, and even then, there will be further refinement after the close of probation during the time of Jacob's trouble. God doesn't stress us without a redemptive and loving purpose.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170531
12/09/14 04:19 PM
12/09/14 04:19 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
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While the door of mercy will shut earlier for some of us, this does not mean the those who pass the initial shaking are sealed. So would that mean, there is a negative sealing, but not necessarily a positive sealing?
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