The problem is --
You imply the cleansing is a killing off of people.

THE TRUE CLEANSING
While I see the cleansing as something that needs to be done in our lives, in our hearts and minds.

"But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness." (Mal. 3:2)

So who will abide the day when Christ comes?

When we come close to Christ, indeed our sins appear as sinful. But He has opened the fountain of cleansing for us! His shed blood is for our cleansing. As we look upon Him on the cross we realize it was our sins that put Him there. And like He arose from the grave, we too need to die to sin and rise in newness of life, walking with Him day by day. When we invite Him into our lives, and fill our thoughts with HIS word, He will cleanse us from sin, purify our hearts and minds.
That is the cleansing we are to seek.


In your studies cleansing is called killing.
That's not cleansing anyone.

Nor is it the cleansing being talked about there.
Do you want to be cleansed from sin, or do you just want to get rid of everyone who is against your idea of a kingdom over there in old Jerusalem that will be the biggest deception of Satan that he will deliver to the world before Christ comes.

USING AN APPEAL FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

The deceptive kingdom has a counterfeit righteousness.
In fact the deception is built by upholding a "righteousness".

All I have to do is read some of the marion apparitions messages and realize that satan and his fallen angels who are the voice behind these apparitions, is very "pious" about getting rid of sin or else a great chastisement will come.
The messages are full of denouncing the evils in this world in no soft pedaling manner, and calling for reforms in the churches and in the lives of people and urging them to pray and forsake their sins, and threatening a chastisement if they don't.

But does that make them true messages?

No -- because one doesn't have to read far into them before seeing some very WRONG things. (And I don't recommend studying them because the good does NOT outweigh the deceptive nature) But just talk to someone who believes them and they respond that we are too "closed minded" and "opinionated" etc. that we should look into it more, and we don't really understand them, and not be so prejudice and that we will bring the chastisement.

Now
Houteff's message has taken many truths from Adventism and they are geared to those who see the evils in the church and wish with all their hearts that they weren't there. Yes, he calls for reforms that are needed, that's his entering wedge to get Adventists to follow his teachings.

But does a heavy mixture of truth and a call for reform (all good in themselves) prove that His message is from God?

His followers have webpages out there saying the reason Houteff was disfellowshipped was because he called for reforms in the church.

THAT is NOT the reason. The reason was because he taught doctrines (especially his Jerusalem doctrine and extermination of Adventists doctrine) that brought a lot of confusion into the churches.

He is NOT in agreement with EGW at all. It's one or the other, not both.
Anyone who has read a lot from EGW's writings, can see it constantly how he misuses her writings and weaves them in to say what he wants to say, not what she taught.

THE DESTINATION

When one strips away all the "Adventist" trimmings that hide his true message, what is left pretty much leads to the same deceptive end as most all other religious/new age type messages lead to.

Different? Yes, quite different in detail, but very similar in final destination.

1) The need for the destruction of opposing forces.
For Houteff it is the need for the Adventist church to be exterminated.
But I could quote you from various different beliefs, that such is believed to be needed before the "kingdom" of peace and higher level of living can be achieved.


Yes, there is no doubt there will be a lot of blood shed in the future, with that kind of mindset of so many. Each seeking their utopic kingdom here on earth, and seeing those who don't believe in that kingdom as "holding it back" so it can't happen (thus they must die)

But we are not to fear for the preservation of this life.
Our lives need to be hid in Christ.

Matt. 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

John 16:2 the time will come, that whosoever kills you will think that he is doing God service.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

2) The kingdom
All eyes are turned toward Jerusalem expecting big things there. Whether one calls it a "temporal kingdom" before the millennium or the "millennial kingdom" really makes no difference. They are all looking for a kingdom here on earth and for some reason Jerusalem is the coveted spot.
Most see a lot of troublesome times to take place first before the utopic quantum leap is made.

And they will get it (almost).
Why almost? Because it will fail.
Because it isn't God's kingdom, it is Satan's attempt to "exalt his throne above the stars of God: and sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Is. 14:13
"Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, [on] the sides of the north, the city of the great King. Psalms 48:2

The fallen angel wants the worship that is due to God.
Through marvellous signs and wonders, he will gather all nations -- but it will be the battle against the LAMB, it will not be God's kingdom at all, even though the chief leaders in that hoped for kingdom will appear to be very religious.

No -- the true MESSAGE does not lead us to old Jerusalem, but to the NEW JERUSALEM which is above.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with observation:
17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when you shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow [them].
17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.



Notice several things in the passage above

1) The kingdom is not by observation -- in other words don't look for a literal kingdom here. The kingdom now is one that is to be in us -- a kingdom of grace that cleanses the soul.

2) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Yet the rod message is saying Lo here! Lo there! It is focused on a place as God's kingdom on earth.
But the kingdom prior to Christ's coming is not in any place -- it is to be within us.

3) See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Do not follow anyone to old Jerusalem seeking a kingdom there.
Till Christ comes the only kingdom is the one that is to be within you.

Ded- In your studies cleansing is called killing.
That's not cleansing anyone

Dedication is mistaken again.

First- let's look at what the Lord did to "cleanse" --

1) The whole world was nearly apostate in Noah's day--How did God choose to cleanse? The answer , as we know is quite obvious. He killed and that He did thoroughly! Was He a bad guy?

2) In Lot's time the whole area (cities) had become evil and intolerable, what did God do? He killed and that He did thoroughly.

3) In Moses' time when nearly the entire camp had shown Him unfaithfulness and unbelief, what did God do? He killed and that He did thoroughly. (Korah and the multitude swallowed alive by Him, people killed with bird meat in their teeth, ALL males over 20 not allowed to enter kingdom who showed unbelief, etc.)

So we see that God does indeed cleanse by death(killing). Soon the Lord will do so again.

(Will post part 2 tonight of the pre-mil kingdom, in a new thread)

Ded- As to the quote in Isaiah 2

There are "if" and the context.

Isaiah 1:18-20 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].

Then in the next chapter

Quote:
2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Let us see what the dictionary says about the word--"shall"

1. Used before a verb in the infinitive to show:
a. Something that will take place or exist in the future: We shall arrive tomorrow.
b. Something, such as an order, promise, requirement, or obligation: You shall leave now. He shall answer for his misdeeds. The penalty shall not exceed two years in prison.
c. The will to do something or have something take place: I shall go out if I feel like it.
d. Something that is inevitable: That day shall come.
2. Archaic
a. To be able to.
b. To have to; must.
Source- "the free online dictionary by Farlex"

There are 10 shalls and 2 wills in Isaiah 2:2-4 (as shown by word defintion is something that WILL take place)
This is definitely not conditional and for Dedication to say the Isaiah 1:18-20 quote negates His later promises is preposterous and deceitful. A way to "private interpret" the Scriptures!

Ded- And yes, in the New Earth the saved from every nation, tribe and tongue will inhabit the earth. They will gladly come to the New Jerusalem to worship God and learn more about salvation.
The study of God's salvation will be looked into by the saints for eternity -- we don't half understand it now.

There is nothing foolish in Johns depiction of all the nations of the saved coming to Jerusalem.

What happens in New Jerusalem is not issue. What is, is the attempt for you to put "last days" in the time of the "New Earth". Just because similar language is used such as "nations" does not mean one can use private interpretations to mix and match references as you have attmepted.

Again, your connection with New Jerusalem to "last days" does not pass the truth test. When the Lord shall descend the Holy City upon a NEW earth, it shall be NEW world and NEW times and NEW days. NO where in Scripture can we find "last days" ever describing New Jerusalem. Only in peoples private interpretations.

As far as Isaiah 2:4, we read--

Isa. 2:4 -- "And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

"Not the nations, but Inspiration Itself declares that in the day God judges the living, then those nations who go to the mountain (Kingdom church purified) of the Lord "shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks" -- they will go farming instead of spending their strength in war.

The nations that do not accept the Lord's "rebuke," in that day, though, will madly arise against the "mountain" of the Lord, as forecast by the prophet Joel, saying: "Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears:

let the weak say, I am strong. Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord. Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about." Joel 3:9- 12.

So yes, nation shall not lift up sword against "nation" but rather against the "Lord" and His people, as Joel 3:9-12 describes. Ah, understanding His word fully, really straightens us out, amen!

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." (2 Peter 1:20)

Bottom line, unless Dedication can show us from Scripture or SOP where the New Jerusalem time is called "last days" we must throw out her teachings here as it is nothing but her "private interpretation". Isaiah 2:2-3 cannot have a future application as she has tried to make us believe.

If you recall the prophecy found in Isaiah, was made to Israel prior to their captivity. They were promised that they would be re-gathered to their home land. And true to God's promise the temple and city was rebuilt. (See Ezra and Nehemiah)

According to Daniel 9 we read that after the decree to rebuild was given they were given 70 weeks of 7 or 490 years.
This was their allotted time -- their probationary time.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

They were to forsake their sinful ways and be in covenant relationship with God. Near the end of those 490 years the Messiah came and made reconciliation for iniquity through His death, and ratify and offer the new everlasting covenant to His people. He is the "most holy" who was anointed at His baptism.

They were to accept the Messiah and be a light to the whole world to which the nations would flock and learn about the true God.

THE LAST DAYS of the prophecy refer to the last of that time period.
It was in those last days that Son of God HIMSELF, Emmanuel, God with us, came and lived, walked, talked among them.
This was their destiny, their purpose.

490 years were given to them
In the last days of their probationary time they faced two doors -- Isaiah, in several places, describing one of those doors of a glorious righteous nation--

Daniel pictures the other door -- that three and half years after Christ's sacrifice to reconcile them to God, the nation (as a nation) sealed their destiny by stoning Stephen who presented to them a covenant summons, (Acts 7) and so they chose the second door.


Daniel 9 shows the other door. -- the one they chose in their last days of probationary time as God's nation.

9:27 And he (Christ) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (by His sacrificial death) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jerusalem's "last days" ended in 34 AD it's destiny sealed to be desolate until the consummation. There will be no re-emergence of old Jerusalem as God's city of righteousness.


But God's promises will be fulfilled to His faithful.
For we look for the NEW JERUSALEM which is above and which is free, the mother of us all. (Galatians 4:26)
We want Christ to write His name and the name of God's city, the NEW JERUSALEM on our foreheads (Rev. 3:12) with the blessed promise that we will be citizens of the heavenly kingdom.

Ded- If you recall the prophecy found in Isaiah, was made to Israel prior to their captivity. They were promised that they would be re-gathered to their home land. And true to God's promise the temple and city was rebuilt. (See Ezra and Nehemiah)

Amazing! Now instead of explaining how she can produce Scriptural/SOP to back up her declaring that Isaiah 2:2-3 has a "New earth" application (which we all saw her make) she now reverts back to "oh that Scripture means the days of old Israel."

What happened to proof for your statement, you rescind that belief? Or can't find anything from Inspiration showing that --"last days = New earth?

I see your report and it does not produce anything that shows Inspiration words to back up your statement. I could clearly explain how even your old days meaning of Isaiah 2:2-3 cannot be, but let's do first things first.

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." (2 Peter 1:20)

No, it's not a mistake -- it's looking at things in context. When Christ speaks of CLEANSING HIS PEOPLE, it means cleansing the people --

It means washing them from their sins, changing their hearts and minds, helping them to overcome sin.

Ps. 51:2 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
2 Cor. 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

That is different from executing judgment.

Noah's day-- Lot's day

They are examples of the second coming.
Yes, there will be an executive judgment.

But what God desires now is to CLEANSE people and prepare them as citizens of the NEW JERUSALEM.

What Satan desires now is to get rid of Adventists (and anyone else) who exposes his deceptive earthly kingdom in which he hopes to trap people into worshipping him.

It's the MIXING of concepts to create false things that's the problem.

No I haven't rescinded anything - I simply repeated what apparently you missed.

See post a few pages back
I simply gave more information on the same thing.



And so GLL must again attack me, instead of actually looking or reading what I wrote.

Again and for the 3rd or 4th time (I forgot how many) show us where you can provide Inspiration of the statement you made that Isaiah 2:2-3 has a future application in the New Earth. And where Inspiration describes "last days" in the time of New Jerusalem.

Your last post did not come through with the links, you may want to press enter upon the posting of the links.

Bottom line , if you connect Isaiah 2:2-3 to an application applying to the New earth then simply provide Inspiration for that, not your words-- but Inspiration. If you do not have, fine, just clear that with us.

I did look at your "few pages back" and did not see any reference. Only your words explaining "your" ideas. There is no "personal attacks" by asking for you to provide Inspiration for your belief that "last days" refers to the New Jerusalem time. And the reference for the future Isaiah 2:2-3 to the New earth period, which you claimed.

I am speaking of the cleansing of the "people" not of the "person" Two big differences.

No one can deny that Joshua and Caleb, were found righteous among the 20+ in the congregation (some say 1 million!). The elimination of the others produced a "cleansed" people in the Lord's eyes. In other words elimination of the unbelieving, as he will do in the church judgment (Ezek. 9), frees the wheat from the tares, just as the crop is cleansed by taking out the tares.