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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: dedication]
#170533
12/09/14 04:30 PM
12/09/14 04:30 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
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Now that's an interesting thought I hadn't thought of. Could it be that something a leader of one of the churches does which unleashes satan and his angels to wreck havoc?
I read your comment and then reread the list of revelation's "stars" and a connection kind of "jumped out" that I had never seen before. I've been thinking about this, but it says a star from heaven. Not sure how a leader of a church can be from heaven placing it in such context.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: kland]
#170534
12/09/14 04:45 PM
12/09/14 04:45 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
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While the door of mercy will shut earlier for some of us, this does not mean the those who pass the initial shaking are sealed. So would that mean, there is a negative sealing, but not necessarily a positive sealing? Right. History bears that out from the shut door of the Ark, to the doom of the Canaanites, to the Jews at the close of the 70 weeks etc. Those in the Ark weren't sealed, (Ham was later cursed) but those outside were doomed.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Charity]
#170541
12/10/14 01:15 AM
12/10/14 01:15 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 510
Michigan, US
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Yes, the sanctuary is the KEY to understanding the book of Revelation!
When you consider the Feast of Trumpets in Leviticus chap. 23, the Seven Trumpet of Revelation has to be the announcement of the Anti-typical Day of Atonement, which should have been sounded ever since the 1844 and that the end of the world is near.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Charity]
#170543
12/10/14 01:47 AM
12/10/14 01:47 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 510
Michigan, US
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I agree that we need to understand the seven trumpets and give the warning. But they are not just messages like the three angels. They are actual events. It's true they mirror the plagues, but they don't warn of the approach of the plagues merely by words. They describe events that are harbingers of the wrath to come. The sound of the Seven Trumpets describes detailed events of the Seven Plagues, in that God may prevent men to receive less plagues. The four angels are holding the winds of the earth until the complete sealing of the 144,000 (Rev. 7:1-4). At a point of time, God will command the four angels to loose their hold (Rev. 9:13-14), which is the end of probation. I don't think that God's command to loose that hold of angels will take 391 years like some interpreters of the sixth trumpet but it would be immediately obeyed by the four angels.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: dedication]
#170544
12/10/14 01:51 AM
12/10/14 01:51 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
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I've been pondering this observation by Dedication for a couple days: THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS
This feast was observed on the first day of the seventh month. Now the first day of every month was begun with the blowing of trumpets and special ceremonies. So why make special mention of the blowing of trumpets on the first day of the seventh month?
It was important because this was the seventh month, and the trumpets were announcing that this was the month for the Day of Atonement and all were to consecrate themselves to the Lord in preparation for this solemn day.
It is interesting that seven months pass. Each beginning with a trumpet blast. On the seventh month, we have the seventh trumpet blast, announcing the day of atonement.
Are any bells ringing in our minds? Is anything in the Bible corresponding with this in our minds?
Revelation. There we have seven trumpets blown consecutively, not all together. And when the seventh trumpet blows, in Revelation chapter 11, we see the inner door into the Most Holy of Heaven opened and we see the ark, while the 24 elders declare that the time of judgment has come. Let's assume for the moment that the seven trumpets of Revelation have a future application. According to Numbers 10 the silver trumpets were to be blown over the burnt offerings of all the sacred feasts. While it's true that they were also blown at every month of the ancient sacred calendar, at the Feast of Trumpets at the start of the seventh month there were four distinct burnt offerings made on that day (see Numbers 10, 28 and 29) so the trumpets were blown at least four times that day. Now if you look at the trumpets of Revelation 8-11, it's interesting that the first four are grouped separately from the last three. The last three are woes and there is an interlude between them that announces the terrible effects of the final three before they occur. The same grouping pattern appears in the seal. The first four seals are summoned by each of the four living creatures (covering cherubs) that surround the throne. The last three are not. Why? One thing it suggests to me is that the first four seals and trumpets may happen at about the same time. What do you all think?
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170545
12/10/14 02:18 AM
12/10/14 02:18 AM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 510
Michigan, US
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When we consider the framework of the Book of Revelation, the sequential pattern to the flow of events indicate that the sealed of God will blow the Seven Trumpets prior to the end of the probation.
1. people enter into the church (Seven Churches) 2. evaluated in the throne room(qualified by the blood of Lamb) 3. saints are sealed (Seven Seals) 4. blow the Seven Trumpets 5. Exposing the ID of Satan (Chap. 12-14) 6. Seven Plagues fall (Chap. 15-16) 7. Collapse of the Babylon (Chap. 17-18) 8. Second Coming of Jesus (Chap. 19) 9. Reviewing the Judgment during the millennium 10. New heaven and new earth
We are not to disconnect the series of visions, jumping around in time. There are sequential pattern to the flow of events as a continuous vision, which has a logical relatedness. The scenes of Revelation alternate between heaven and earth until the final destination in the new Jerusalem .
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Charity]
#170546
12/10/14 03:25 AM
12/10/14 03:25 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
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The same grouping pattern appears in the seal. The first four seals are summoned by each of the four living creatures (covering cherubs) that surround the throne. The last three are not. Why? One thing it suggests to me is that the first four seals and trumpets may happen at about the same time. What do you all think?
I've contemplated on those four horses in Rev. 6 and come to the conclusion that even though they were released in sequence, all of them continue to ride right to the end of earth's history. The white horse-- Depicting the Gospel going out to the world under the power of the "early rain". The Holy Spirit is still at work to give us the power and love of the pure gospel. The red horse -- The spirit of persecution from pagan sources is still trying to obliterate the pure gospel . The black horse -- And when Christians slide into complacency, and lose the Spirit of God, they still become self-appointed judges of other people. The pale horse -- the apostate doctrines and spiritual abuse is still raging and will accelerate in the last days. The other three seals show -- 1) God will vindicate his persecuted saints 2) Christ will come again to execute judgment upon unbelievers 3) God will seal His faith people and they will stand before His throne in praise and adoration.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170547
12/10/14 03:44 AM
12/10/14 03:44 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Canada
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As to the seven trumpets -- They do show the key controversy of the last days.
1) The first trumpet shows the fall of Jerusalem after they, as a nation rejected Christ.(though many individual Jews accepted Christ and carried the gospel to the world)
In the last days Jerusalem will play a significant role in the deceptive counterfeits of satan. Heed the voice of the trumpet that this is NOT the place to seek safety and salvation. Be like the individual Jews at that time and go out into the world bearing the true gospel message.
2) Depicts the fall of Christian Imperial Rome -- The linking up of Christianity with the emperors was deadly to truth. Heed the trumpet call to keep church and state separate -- churches are not to ally themselves with powerful political identies.
3-4) Depicts the papal darkness -- and the water of life being turned to "wormwood".
In the last days the papacy will rise to incredible power and influence -- but they still have the same "wormwood" to offer.
5-6 Depict the two powerful Islamic periods and the warfare between Christians and Islam over Jerusalem as well as for control over the conscience of the people.
This will again be a major thing in the last days. The battle will be fierce, terrible things will take place, the "king of the north" will appear to win, he will establish himself in the "glorious mountain" and seek to enforce his brand of worship upon the world. It will be accompanied by "signs and wonders" to deceive the whole world.
7) The nations are angry, but God is judge, the ark of the covenant is the where the standard and mercy reside and the faithful will understand this. The time of judgment has come. Christ comes and the reward is with Him. He reigns!
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170548
12/10/14 04:12 AM
12/10/14 04:12 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
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When we consider the framework of the Book of Revelation, the sequential pattern to the flow of events indicate that the sealed of God will blow the Seven Trumpets prior to the end of the probation.....
We are not to disconnect the series of visions, jumping around in time. There are sequential pattern to the flow of events as a continuous vision, Seeing the cyclic nature of prophecy is not "jumping around" at all -- in fact it runs much more smoothly then trying to make all of Revelation one continuous sequence. Like -- the sixth seal depicts Christ's coming and its effect on the unsaved. While the next chapter depicts those who will be able to stand at that coming and enjoy heaven and being in the presence of God's throne. The trumpets then take us back to events that take place prior to these seals. The seventh trumpet takes us right up to Christ reigning for ever. But the following chapters take us back to events prior to this. The sequences are: --------------churches-------------------------------------- --------------seals------------------------------------------- --------------trumpets-------------------------------------- ....................--------------Rev. 13 --------------------- ..............................................---Rev. 14------- .....................................................Rev.15-18 ............................................................Rev.19-22
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: dedication]
#170551
12/10/14 08:07 AM
12/10/14 08:07 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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The same grouping pattern appears in the seal. The first four seals are summoned by each of the four living creatures (covering cherubs) that surround the throne. The last three are not. Why? One thing it suggests to me is that the first four seals and trumpets may happen at about the same time. What do you all think?
I've contemplated on those four horses in Rev. 6 and come to the conclusion that even though they were released in sequence, all of them continue to ride right to the end of earth's history. . . Another good observation. Thanks for sharing that.
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