Are you wondering if I said - The brain begins as unholy thoughts and feelings? I doubt it. So, what are you wondering?

No.

I understood you to say nothing is wrong with the brain, but it's "the flesh" where the problem is. Which you then state "begin as unholy thoughts and feelings". Don't thoughts and feelings come from the brain?

The brain is where we become consciously aware sinful flesh is tempting us to satisfy innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways. All temptations begin as unholy thoughts and feelings.

The brain is an integral part of the body. The mind is a function of the brain. Thoughts, feelings, character, willpower, personality, temperament, etc are functions of the brain. She says - "The lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it."

Again - "the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God." It tempts, but cannot sin. Sinful flesh tempts in the form of unholy thoughts and feelings - do this, do that without reference to truth or temperance. All temptations begin as unholy thoughts and feelings. Such thoughts and feelings do not constitute sinning. Nor do they corrupt or contaminate. So long as they are not cherished or acted out in thought, word, or deed there is no harm or foul.

You wrote - "You believe these moral issues emanate from the body." I hope you see the difference. The body is the seat of the soul. The soul is the essence of humans. Sinful flesh has its "seat in the body" and "works through it" to generate and communicate temptations, unholy thoughts and feelings. Sinful flesh is the source of these internally generated temptations - not the body. The body is not sinful flesh. It is the channel through which sinful flesh tempts.

I believe the old man mind, the old man heart dies when people experience rebirth in God's appointed way. Jesus replaces it with the new mind, the new heart. But, as you know, rebirth is rare. Most people do not experience it. They retain many of their cultivated sinful habits and practices. Ellen White wrote:


However, just because the old man mind and heart dies it does not mean sinful flesh ceases tempting from within. The old mind, the old heart is not the sinful flesh. They are two different aspects of fallen human nature. The voice of sinful flesh will not be silenced until the day Jesus replaces it with sinless flesh. Ellen White wrote:


Body and sinful flesh are separate aspects of fallen human nature. People become consciously aware of the clamorings of sinful flesh as unholy thoughts and feelings. These unholy thoughts and feelings do not constitute sinning. They are temptations. When resisted and controlled by a sanctified will and mind, by sanctified reason and conscience the result is righteousness and true holiness. Ellen White wrote:

This idea is completely unsubstantiated. Our present body is sin as Paul states, in Romans 5-9.

What do you mean by - "body is sin"?

Ellen White wrote:


1) When they are regulated and controlled by a sanctified reason, they are holiness unto the Lord.
2) When you refuse to submit to the control of reason and conscience they are a curse.

Huh?

Does the brain become aware that sinful flesh is tempting us?
Or do all temptations being as unholy thoughts and feelings in the brain rather than the flesh?

The brain is how and where we become consciously aware sinful flesh is tempting us to satisfy our innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways.

There are two origins of temptations - 1) internal, and 2) external. All temptations, regardless of their origin, begin as unholy thoughts and feelings. And all eternal temptations are channeled through sinful flesh. A person can be blind and deaf and still be tempted by sinful flesh from within.

Sinful flesh is not a sentient being. It does not have an agenda. It is akin to instincts. By default unholy thoughts and feelings arise within us encouraging us to satisfy our innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways.

Through rebirth and abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature we are empowered to recognize and resist the voice of sinful flesh. We are enabled to discern, decipher the innocent and legitimate need and chose to satisfy it in holy ways.

I accept what she wrote. But I do not accept your false conclusion that Jesus had the moral worth of a sinner.

You look at Jesus and see Him as immoral as degenerate humanity. By beholding you are changed into the same image.

You can quote anything and everything, but you can't help but squirm when I point out what you are promoting. And rightly so. Who would want it known that their savior had the moral worth of a liar, rapist, murderer, etc? But that's what you ate tring to pawn off on us. You have too much integrity to deny it clearly, but not enough to proclaim it clearly either. You hide in the shadows of innuendo.

I invite you to come out in the open. If your beliefs cannot withstand the light, maybe it's not worth holding on to. Kinda like the moral worth of sinners...