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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170908
12/27/14 11:33 AM
12/27/14 11:33 AM
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I found this on Peter Kirk's blog from 2011, Gentle Wisdom: I was fascinated to read the following, written by David Wilkerson in 1974, and quoted at The Watchman’s Cry Forum in December 2010 – so well before the recent earthquake in Japan (emphasis added by the forum poster, who is probably also responsible for the grammatical oddities): Earthquakes coming to United States The United States is going to experience in the not-too-distant future the most tragic earthquakes in its history. One day soon this nation will be reeling under the impact of the biggest news story of modern times. It will be coverage of the biggest most disastrous earthquake in history.
It will cause widespread panic and fear, Without a doubt, it will become one of the most completely reported earthquake ever. Television networks will suspend all programming and carry all day coverage.
Another earthquake , possibly in Japan may precede the one that I see coming here. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind about this forthcoming massive earthquake in our continent.
I am not at all convinced that this earthquake will take place in California. In fact, I believe it is going to take place where it is least expected. This terrible earthquake may happen in an area that not known as an earthquake belt. It will be so high on the Richter scale that it will trigger two other major earthquakes. This is from Chapter 2 of David Wilkerson’s 1974 book The Vision. This is the same David Wilkerson who is best known for his 1963 book The Cross and the Switchblade. He later founded Times Square Church in New York City. I heard him speak in London in 2003. Although nearly 80, he continues to publish daily devotions (using Blogger software, but this is not a blog as comments are not allowed), but has not mentioned Japan recently. Wikipedia offers a summary of Wilkerson’s prophecies as published in The Vision and elsewhere. Some parts of this have clearly already been fulfilled. These prophecies include the following from March 2009, published among Wilkerson’s daily devotions: AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE – EVEN THE GODLIEST AMONG US.
For ten years I have been warning about a thousand fires coming to New York City. It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires—such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago.
There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting—including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God’s wrath. …
How should we react to such prophecies? In the past on this blog I have discussed modern day prophecies by Smith Wigglesworth and Sharon Stone. On my understanding, the gift of prophecy today is not primarily about predicting future events. However, I believe that on occasions God does reveal the future to his people, not to satisfy their curiosity, but as warnings and to demonstrate that he is in control of events.
Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets. Amos 3:7 (NIV 2011)
Such modern prophecies should not be considered infallible. The prophets, however respected they may be as church leaders, are fallible human beings. Their utterances are not inspired Holy Scripture, not on the same level as the writings of the Old Testament prophetic authors – who were only a few of the many prophets operating in their time. But when specific prophecies are made and come true, that tends to confirm the prophet and give greater credibility to his or her other prophecies. So it would be right for the people of the USA to take heed of Wilkerson’s warnings for his home country: a massive earthquake following the one in Japan, and major rioting in New York and elsewhere. These prophecies should be taken as conditional, if the nation does not repent, as was Jonah’s biblical prophecy of the overthrow of one of the greatest cities of his world (Jonah 3:4). Also we don’t know the time scales involved: if the Japan earthquake was nearly 40 years after the prophecy, the US one may be even further in the future. It is wise to be ready, but not to panic. Wilkerson’s 2009 advice is good:
I will say to my soul: No need to run…no need to hide. This is God’s righteous work. I will behold our Lord on his throne, with his eye of tender, loving kindness watching over every step I take—trusting that he will deliver his people even through floods, fires, calamities, tests, trials of all kinds.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170909
12/27/14 11:55 AM
12/27/14 11:55 AM
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Again, the above post was by Peter Kirk, a non-Adventist. I've reposted it here because I want to introduce the late David Wilkerson, former pastor of Time Square Church, NY, NY, to those who haven't heard of him. Why? Because his vision from 1973 has been and is being accurately fulfilled and it aligns with the present judgment hour message given not by Adventists but by Evangelicals. About a third of Wilkerson's economic predictions were fulfilled in the sub-prime mortgage meltdown of 2008 but the other two thirds will soon follow. Below is a summary of it. I've followed the ministry of Wilkerson since I read his book, The Cross and the Switchblade in the 80's in my late teens or early twenties. In the last half year I've reviewed his ministry more carefully and I have no doubt that his basic doctrine is sound. He did not have the 7th day Sabbath truth but in the last days the Lord says he will pour out His spirit on all flesh as he gradually makes the full gospel known. Remember, the wise men of the East who knew nothing of the rabbinical traditions were more enlightened than the Sabbath keepers. This history is repeating itself in the remnant church. Wilkerson was a faithful, self-sacrificing servant of God who repeatedly ventured his life for the sake of the gospel and for the glory of God:
Summary of Wilkerson’s book, “The Vision”:
An economic collapse is coming
There is a worldwide economic confusion just ahead. In my vision, this is the clearest thing I have seen. Not only is the American dollar headed for deep trouble, but so are all world currencies. I see total economic confusion striking Europe first and then affecting Japan, the United States, Canada, and all other nations shortly thereafter. It is not really a depression I see coming----but a recession of such magnitude it will affect the lifestyle of nearly every wage earner in America and around the world. Countries that now control huge amounts of Western currency are going to be in very deep trouble also, Arab countries will especially be hurt.
Without a doubt, there are lean years ahead full of monetary confusion and despair. How soon is not clear, but it is not far away. The world’s greatest economists will be at a loss to explain the confusion and an international crisis of fear will develop. A false economic boom will precede the recession---but it will be short lived.
Bankruptcies of Major Corporations
I believe we are going to witness the bankruptcies of some of this nation's major and most popular corporations. I see tremendous difficulty arising for credit corporations .There are going to be many people unable to pay off their heavy obligations to major credit card companies, causing near-- chaos.
Thousands of small businesses will also be forced into bankruptcies. Three and possibly four, of the major religious denominations will be forced into operate with a skeleton organization due to lack of funds. More than a few churches are going to go bankrupt and a number of independent missionary societies and church organizations are going to have to pull back. All but a few of the radio and television ministries will have to be abandoned.
Tight money will trigger a wave of uncertainty and fear. Those who have money will hold it in reserve.
The United States government is going to "over react" to the confused economical developments. I see a flurry of near panic decisions being made by various government agencies---but these hasty efforts to shore up the economy will backfire.
The President of the United States will make one, and possibly two, national radio and TV appearances to reassure the nation that all is well, and that the best of economic times is just ahead. It will not work. People will distrust these statements, and their fears will lead to a revolution at the polls.
The auto industry is going to be hurt badly. Labor leaders are also going to be caught up in this wave of economic confusion. We may soon experience the most devastating strikes of all times. Almost every economic indicator will be gloomy. It will be spotty at first----but will eventually effect nearly all industry.
A New World Monetary System
There will develop a call for revamping all monetary systems into one uniform system. Be prepared to hear of world trade agreements "policed " by an international governing committees. Strict guidelines for international trade will develop and a "world market" will be closely monitored by big power interest.
Earthquakes coming to United States
The United States is going to experience in the not-too-distant future the most tragic earthquakes in its history. One day soon this nation will be reeling under the impact of the biggest news story of modern times. It will be coverage of the biggest most disastrous earthquake in history. It will cause widespread panic and fear. Without a doubt, it will become one of the most completely reported earthquake ever. Television networks will suspend all programming and carry all day coverage.
Another earthquake , possibly in Japan may precede the one that I see coming here. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind about this forthcoming massive earthquake in our continent. I am not at all convinced that this earthquake will take place in California. In fact, I believe it is going to take place where it is least expected. This terrible earthquake may happen in an area that is not known as an earthquake belt. It will be so high on the Richter scale that it will trigger two other major earthquakes.
Famine is coming
Snowless winters will bring dismal crop production and famine conditions in central and western Russia, India, Pakistan , all of southeast Asia and Africa will especially hard hit.
The forty-month drought in Africa and the prolonged dry spell in Brazil will both end temporarily. There will be some relief but conditions will worsen. In Africa, millions will face starvation.
American food reserves will dwindle partially due to drought and flood in this country. Wheat, rice and soybean reserves will be completely exhausted. The demand for corn, rice and wheat will not be met.
The Beginning of Sorrows
Floods, hurricanes, tornadoes and hailstorms will occur more frequently. More than one-third of the United States will be designated a disaster area within the next few years.
Nature will go Wild
Floods, hurricanes and tornadoes will destroy crops, animals and much wildlife driving prices even higher and causing some experts to suggest that nature is losing its balance.
Weather will become increasing difficult to forecast. Sudden storms will appear without warning. Southernmost regions will be gripped by record cold waves and northern areas will experience record heat waves.
Short Periods of Relief
Many men will appear to be repentant during the times of violent chastisement by nature but the short period of relief will make it appear that nature has settled down and men will be comforted by warm sunshine and normal seasonal weather. But more violence, far worse will soon follow.
Airline pilots will be reporting the worst flying conditions in aviation history. The most intense hurricanes are coming. Many parts of the world face the most violent winters of all times. Europe faces the worst winter lashings ever.
Depletion of Relief funds
Relief and disaster funds will become nearly depleted. Insurance companies will face huge losses.
Unlimited funds are not available and the people of each nations will soon learn there will be no one left to turn to but God.
Outbreaks of Epidemics
Mankind faces the threat of new epidemics. There will a major cholera epidemic sweeping through various underdeveloped countries. India and Pakistan face threat of untold thousands dying from epidemics and starvation.
Hailstorms
Large chunks of ice will fall from the sky and cause much damage. These storms will not only destroy crops and smash automobiles but they will also cause the death of many people.
Watch out for reports of intense ice storms and hailstorms in the future. Also prepare for the most severe winter of all time and record snowfalls in the United States and Canada.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170915
12/27/14 03:15 PM
12/27/14 03:15 PM
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The SOP describes a respite, a reprieve between the "little time of trouble" and the "great time of trouble". During this time of peace and prosperity God's people will boldly proclaim the 3AM. "The commencement of that time of trouble," here mentioned, does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel.--EW 85, 86 (1854). {LDE 143.2} The enforcement of Sunday Laws causes the little time of trouble. Thus, the little time of trouble is yet future. However, the ongoing rash of man-made and natural disasters are likely to motivate people and politicians to clamor for Sunday Laws. I am surprised it isn't already Headline News.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170917
12/27/14 05:38 PM
12/27/14 05:38 PM
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I don't think we'll have to wait long for what's coming. Here's a link to a recording of the first time Wilkerson recounted his vision publicly in 1973. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2gBTY70-mY At minute 3 he talks about a new 'natural' phenomena - cosmic fire storms in the sky that leave vapor trails. What does that remind you of? Most of the sermon is about the fifth sign in the vision - the persecution that's in store for all born again believers.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170918
12/27/14 05:57 PM
12/27/14 05:57 PM
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The SOP describes a respite, a reprieve between the "little time of trouble" and the "great time of trouble". During this time of peace and prosperity God's people will boldly proclaim the 3AM.
I don't think it's a "reprieve" it is simply "holding back" the full fury of it. We ARE in that time NOW. When the angels cease to hold -- it's too late. There is NO temporal kingdom (as one poster thinks) nor a "reprieve" of any form ahead, the time to proclaim the message is NOW. The reason the Sunday movement isn't receiving more publicity is because Satan will have all his devises in place and will spring the last conflict in one overwhelming surprise. If he can keep people asleep and thinking the "time to evangelize the world" is yet future long enough, he knows he will have most of the world tied up in his bag. EGW did speak of the world being in confusion and then a time of peace, followed by more confusion in 1T 268. I believe that "time of confusion" was the world wars in the 1900's. They were our warning -- we've had 60 some years of reprieve to take the message to the world -- when that confusion strikes again, it will be the last. "The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity, she will have to do in a terrible crisis, under most discouraging, forbidding, circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld, must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith."
Transgression has almost reached its limit. Confusion fills the world, and a great terror is soon to come upon human beings. The end is very near. We who know the truth should be preparing for what is soon to break upon the world as an overwhelming surprise.--Testimonies, vol. 8, p. 28.
Christians should be preparing for what is soon to break upon the world as an overwhelming surprise, and this preparation they should make by diligently studying the word of God, and striving to conform their lives to its precepts. . . . God calls for a revival and a reformation.--Prophets and Kings, p. 626. {ChS 41.3}
A revival of true godliness among us is the greatest and most urgent of all our needs. To seek this should be our first work.--Review and Herald, March 22, 1887. {ChS 41.4}
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170919
12/27/14 06:12 PM
12/27/14 06:12 PM
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At minute 10 on the Wilkerson link I put on my last post Wilkerson describes the coming SuperChurch - a combining of Catholic's and American Protestants. Fascinating detailed description.
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Charity]
#170922
12/27/14 07:54 PM
12/27/14 07:54 PM
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...But when specific prophecies are made and come true, that tends to confirm the prophet and give greater credibility to his or her other prophecies. So it would be right for the people of the USA to take heed of Wilkerson’s warnings for his home country: a massive earthquake following the one in Japan, and major rioting in New York and elsewhere...
Taking heed is good counsel. Much prophecy through EGW has come to pass, confirming her role. Wilkerson's vision echoes both EGW & Biblical warnings, with added detail. He is likely correct. But note, the Church not only eschewed these warnings for a century, but immersed herself in worldly practices which invite these judgments - stock market, pharmacare, 'higher' education, ecumenism, entertainment, abortion, etc. Cavorting with kings of the earth, and merchants, & shipmasters. The world converted the Church, now bound with cords. The SDA Church no longer shares the views of Wilkerson; no voice, no protest, no warning. _____________________________ Wilkerson's 'Japan earthquake' is yet future. The abundant tsunami footage clearly shows all structures intact - shacks, houses, apartment buildings, roads, bridges, ports - including normal traffic circulation. Nothing out of place...as the incoming wave engulfs them all. There is no preceding "earthquake destruction". Samples: 2011 Japan Tsunami on CCTV (2 min.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noq8FYvRqgsFrom office building on coast(6 min.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceym2c18OQM_____________________________
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Karen Y]
#170933
12/28/14 05:29 PM
12/28/14 05:29 PM
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The 144,000 are the sealed of God who will blow the Seven Trumpets. We must understand who they are. They are the one who finish the work of the LORD in this last generation (Heb. 11:40). Thus, it is important to differentiate between the great multitudes and the sealed of God, the 144,000.
The people who will go through the Jacob's trouble are indeed very small numbers. The word 'Remnant' denotes that there were numerous prior to the leftover, imperative to the existence of the multitudes in the book of Revelation. Ellen White refers the 144,000 as “the little company” in the time of trouble.
“As Satan influenced Esau to march against Jacob, so he will stir up the wicked to destroy God’s people in the time of trouble. And as he accused Jacob, he will urge his accusations against the people of God. He numbers the world as his subjects; but the little company who keep the commandments of God are resisting his supremacy.” (GC 618.2)
The 144,000 and the multitude are separate groups. The 144,000 as “firstfruits” are sealed from spiritual Israel, the one nation, while the great multitude comes from all nations.
Indeed, the 144,000 are from one nation, one body, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one Holy Spirit, perfectly united. “The 144,000 were all sealed and perfectly united.”-(EW pg. 15).
They are going to translated alive without seeing death at the second coming. Ellen White indicated eight times about the 144,000, which identified as literal number each time. She said, “the living saints, 144,000 in number…” (EW pg.15)
The multitudes represent all of the redeemed that are resurrected dead by the silver trumpet of the Lord Jesus at the Second Coming.
“Then Jesus’s silver trumpet sounded, as He descended on the cloud, wrapped in flames of fire. He gazed on the graves of the sleeping saints, then raised His eyes and hands to heaven, and cried, “Awake! awake! awake! Ye that sleep in the dust, and arise.” Then there was a mighty earthquake. The graves opened, and the dead came up clothed with immortality. The 144,000 shouted, “Alleluia!” as they recognized their friends who had been torn from them by death, and in the same moment we were changed and caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.” (EW 16.1)
It is apparent that only two separate groups of redeemed are exist. 1 Thess. 4:16,17.
Jesus has “in His right hand was a sharp sickle; in His left, a silver trumpet.” (EW 15.2)
The 144,000 sing song that “no one can learn that song”. They are the harpists.
The multitudes, which no one can number, have palm branches in their hand and sing very short song. The 144,000 are a special choir team in heaven (Rev 14:3) and they are placed in the middle of the inner circle of the seven teams in the kingdom of God. *
* Seven Teams of Choir in the Kingdom of Heaven
(1) Throne of God (Rev.19:4-5)
(2) The Four Beasts (Rev. 4:8-9)
(3) The 24 Elders (Rev. 11:16-18)
(4) The 144,000 (Rev. 14:3, 15:2-4)
(5) The Great Multitudes (Rev. 7:9-10)
(6) The Host of Angels (Rev. 5:11-12)
(7) The Universal Beings (Heb. 12:23-24)
The multitudes stand in fifth circle. The 144.000 stand in the fourth circle.
Among the seven teams of heavenly choir, the fourth is in the middle to “serve God day and night in His temple” (Rev. 7:15), just as the choir members in Solomon’s temple (1Chron. 25:7 singers for the morning and evening of 288 divide by 2=144).
Farmers keep a few best seeds for the next crop as the firstfruit, the holy seed.
The living and the dead cannot be the same group just as the palm branches and the harps are two different things. One is for the resurrected dead that come alive and one is for the group that never taste death at the second coming.
The 144,000 will serve God day and night at the temple of God as a choir member but the great multitudes will be displaced in the universe to their own nation to be kings and priests for God. Jesus said, “…the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel”. (Matt. 19:28) The multitudes are coming to earth every new moon and every Sabbath to worship God, bringing their glory of the nations.
Isa. 66:23 "And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD."
Rev. 21:24, 26 "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it(earth). And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it(earth)."
When the 144,000 blast their loud cry, the Lord will cause the “ambush” to rise up to bring the Babylon the Great to collapse.
2 Chron. 20:22 “And when they began to sing and to praise, the LORD set ambushments against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten.”
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: Charity]
#170953
12/29/14 02:02 PM
12/29/14 02:02 PM
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It just seems the futurist crowd is trying to use something quite natural to support their prophetic interpretation . . . The meteor shower of 1833 was also natural but according to EGW it fulfilled prophecy. Futurist crowd? The Lord is full of innovation. If a natural phenomena will work to bring conviction and win souls to righteousness, he'll do it. Reminds me of something to the effect, ...and the cries of their agony of eternally burning torment rings throughout the universe. Repent! Repent now or suffer the torments of hellfire! (as long as it brings in lost souls, does it matter how we go about it)
Mark, I'll pose a question that someone posed to someone else making predictions. What if 2015 comes and goes and nothing dramatic happens. Where does that leave you?
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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered
[Re: kland]
#170958
12/29/14 02:50 PM
12/29/14 02:50 PM
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. . . And still there's the issue of them not being the same time as the neo-Jews say they are. Could you comment on the new moon, the full moon, and starting the month a couple days later than the new moon which would make the eclipse happening two days prior to when they say the 14/15th is? The reckoning of the timing of the month by modern Jews is scriptural in my opinion. It's a mathematically calculated average of the sighting of the visible new moon rather than the astronomical conjunction. In contrast to the reckoning of the months, the modern Jews are not always scriptural in their calculation of the feast days but in 2014 and 2015 they are right in my opinion. Mathematical average calculations are scriptural? Except the full moon would be related to conjunction, right? And therefore, if the new moon is reckoned by sighting, then the full moon cannot be on the 15th, right? (That it would have to be on the 17th or 18th.) Correction. Make that the Passover would be on the 17th or 18th counting from conjunction. But the full moon would be on the 13th counting the way some do.
conjuction | 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9|10|11|12|13|PO|FM|16|17|18...
neo Jews | 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9|10|11|12|FM|PO|15|16|17|18...
PO=Passover
FM=Full Moon
The full moon stays the same no matter how one numbers it. Could you comment on this as to how it fits with what you're saying about eclipses and Passover. The full moon cannot be on the 15th if you start numbering after conjunction.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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