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Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: Mountain Man] #171096
01/05/15 05:50 PM
01/05/15 05:50 PM
Rick H  Offline

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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
What does it mean - "The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes."

Which attributes has God been restraining?
When you have great powers of nature which are from God being held back, we can deduct from that...

Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: kland] #171106
01/06/15 02:00 PM
01/06/15 02:00 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: kland
M: "Nature is not self-acting; it is the servant of its Creator."

K: What do you suppose would happen if Jesus ceased acting and caused the forces of nature to cease to act?

Hearts would stop beating.
Rivers would stop flowing.
Plants would stop growing.
Gravity would stop pulling.
Diseases would stop acting.
Etc, etc, etc.

Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: kland] #171107
01/06/15 02:19 PM
01/06/15 02:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: kland
Excepting MM says that Jesus causes disease.

Ex 4:6 And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand [was] leprous as snow.

Ex 9:10 It became a boil breaking forth [with] blains upon man, and upon beast.

Ex 12:29 At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt

Num 11:33 The LORD smote the people with a very great plague.

Num 12:10 Behold, Miriam [became] leprous, [white] as snow

1 Sam 25:38 The LORD smote Nabal, that he died.

1 Kings 13:3 And his hand, which he put forth against him, dried up, so that he could not pull it in again to him.

2 Kings 5:27 And he went out from his presence a leper [as white] as snow.

2 Kings 15:5 The LORD smote the king, so that he was a leper

2 Chron 21:18 The LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease.

Acts 5:5 Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost

Acts 9:18 Immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales

Acts 12:23 The angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms

Rev 16:6 They have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: Mountain Man] #171108
01/06/15 02:21 PM
01/06/15 02:21 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joshua
10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, [and] were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: [they were] more which died with hailstones than [they] whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: Mountain Man] #171111
01/06/15 04:02 PM
01/06/15 04:02 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Joshua
10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, [and] were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: [they were] more which died with hailstones than [they] whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.


Job 1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: Mountain Man] #171118
01/06/15 09:10 PM
01/06/15 09:10 PM
K
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1Ch 10:14 And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: Mountain Man] #171119
01/06/15 09:13 PM
01/06/15 09:13 PM
K
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: kland
M: "Nature is not self-acting; it is the servant of its Creator."

K: What do you suppose would happen if Jesus ceased acting and caused the forces of nature to cease to act?

Hearts would stop beating.

So by not acting, hearts would stop beating.

Glad you agree.

Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: APL] #171140
01/07/15 03:37 PM
01/07/15 03:37 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: APL
Joshua
10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, [and] were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: [they were] more which died with hailstones than [they] whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

Job
1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

Here's how the SOP describes it:

Quote:
Joshua prepared to go at once to the relief of Gibeon. The inhabitants of the besieged city had feared that he would reject their appeal, because of the fraud which they had practiced; but since they had submitted to the control of Israel, and had accepted the worship of God, he felt himself under obligation to protect them. He did not this time move without divine counsel, and the Lord encouraged him in the undertaking. "Fear them not," was the divine message; "for I have delivered them into thine hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee." "So Joshua ascended from Gilgal, he, and all the people of war with him, and all the mighty men of valor." {PP 507.5}

By marching all night he brought his forces before Gibeon in the morning. Scarcely had the confederate princes mustered their armies about the city when Joshua was upon them. The attack resulted in the utter discomfiture of the assailants. The immense host fled before Joshua up the mountain pass to Beth-horon; and having gained the height, they rushed down the precipitous descent upon the other side. Here a fierce hailstorm burst upon them. "The Lord cast down great stones from heaven: . . . they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword." {PP 508.1}

While the Amorites were continuing their headlong flight, intent on finding refuge in the mountain strongholds, Joshua, looking down from the ridge above, saw that the day would be too short for the accomplishment of his work. If not fully routed, their enemies would again rally, and renew the struggle. "Then spake Joshua to the Lord, . . . and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. . . . The sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." {PP 508.2}

Before the evening fell, God's promise to Joshua had been fulfilled. The entire host of the enemy had been given into his hand. Long were the events of that day to remain in the memory of Israel. "There was no day like that before it or after it, that Jehovah hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel." "The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of Thine arrows they went, and at the shining of Thy glittering spear. Thou didst march through the land in indignation, Thou didst thresh the heathen in anger. Thou wentest forth for the salvation of Thy people." Habakkuk 3:11-13. {PP 508.3}

The Spirit of God inspired Joshua's prayer, that evidence might again be given of the power of Israel's God. Hence the request did not show presumption on the part of the great leader. Joshua had received the promise that God would surely overthrow these enemies of Israel, yet he put forth as earnest effort as though success depended upon the armies of Israel alone. He did all that human energy could do, and then he cried in faith for divine aid. The secret of success is the union of divine power with human effort. Those who achieve the greatest results are those who rely most implicitly upon the Almighty Arm. The man who commanded, "Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon," is the man who for hours lay prostrate upon the earth in prayer in the camp of Gilgal. The men of prayer are the men of power. {PP 509.1}

This mighty miracle testifies that the creation is under the control of the Creator. Satan seeks to conceal from men the divine agency in the physical world--to keep out of sight the unwearied working of the first great cause. In this miracle all who exalt nature above the God of nature stand rebuked. {PP 509.2}

At His own will God summons the forces of nature to overthrow the might of His enemies--"fire, and hail; snow, and vapor; stormy wind fulfilling His word." Psalm 148:8. When the heathen Amorites had set themselves to resist His purposes, God interposed, casting down "great stones from heaven" upon the enemies of Israel. We are told of a greater battle to take place in the closing scenes of earth's history, when "Jehovah hath opened His armory, and hath brought forth the weapons of His indignation." Jeremiah 50:25. "Hast thou," he inquires, "entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?" Job 38:22, 23. {PP 509.3}

The revelator describes the destruction that is to take place when the "great voice out of the temple of heaven" announces, "It is done." He says, "There fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent." Revelation 16:17, 21. {PP 509.4}

"At His own will God summons the forces of nature to overthrow the might of His enemies--"fire, and hail; snow, and vapor; stormy wind fulfilling His word." Psalm 148:8. When the heathen Amorites had set themselves to resist His purposes, God interposed, casting down "great stones from heaven" upon the enemies of Israel."

APL, do you believe Jesus permitted Satan to murder the Amorites with great hailstones? Do you believe Jesus permitted Satan to stay the sun and moon so that the Israelites could finish murdering the Amorites?

Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: Rick H] #171141
01/07/15 03:49 PM
01/07/15 03:49 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Rick H
M: What does it mean - "The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes." Which attributes has God been restraining?

R: When you have great powers of nature which are from God being held back, we can deduct from that...

. . . nature is self-acting?

Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. [Re: Mountain Man] #171142
01/07/15 03:49 PM
01/07/15 03:49 PM
APL  Offline
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The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. {GC 35.3}

We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}

God is not the executioner.

Satan delights in war, for it excites the worst passions of the soul and then sweeps into eternity its victims steeped in vice and blood. It is his object to incite the nations to war against one another, for he can thus divert the minds of the people from the work of preparation to stand in the day of God. {GC 589.1}

Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them. {GC 589.2}

While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. {GC 589.3}


Sickness, suffering, and death are work of an antagonistic power. Satan is the destroyer; God is the restorer. {CH 168.2}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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