The idea that Jesus need only cease restraining the forces of nature and they will act of its own accord to destroy, mistakenly assumes the forces of nature are self-acting. They are not!


Thus, if Jesus were to cease acting, the forces of nature would cease acting. Jesus must act for the forces of nature to destroy. Otherwise, they would do nothing. Not even evil angels can wield the forces of nature as weapons of destruction without Jesus doing His part (acting so they can act).

But MM, you are substituting some words for another. Whether you call it "guessing" or just plain wrong, I don't know..



"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

Yes, the above passage spells it out clearly, no need to substitute things. What is she talking about? She's not talking about nature destroying things. She's talking about keeping hearts beating, nature in harmony and synchrony. Why do you substitute something "hideous" for the beauty and harmony spelled out in the passage?

What do you suppose would happen if Jesus ceased acting and caused the forces of nature to cease to act?

The point is - Nature is not self-acting.


Again, nature is not self-acting. Jesus employs the forces of nature like a weapon to punish and discipline. He cannot simply withdraw His protection and allow the forces of nature to act on its own. Things do not work that way.

Nature is governed by God's laws.

Sin is the transgression of God's laws.
When sinful man continually transgresses those laws, he will reap the results.

Take our bodies for an example --
Disregard for the laws of health end up with the body breaking down. This is cumulative -- generations of abuse to the human system has lead to much sickness, degeneracy and problems.

Mankinds' disregard for the laws of nature (massive pollution, soaking the earth with chemicals, cutting down the air filtering trees, taking too much water out of earth's water tables, testing nuclear bombs underground, manipulating the genetics of plants and animals, robbing plants of their ability to reproduce) and a host of other manipulations of God's laws governing nature play a huge role in the calamities facing the world.

God's creation reveals God's power!
There is a lot of inanimate power in nature.
When treated as God designed it, in its finely tuned and marvellous perfection, God's gift of creation was meant to provide for all the needs of life. If nature is abused and it's laws transgressed the power is unleashed in a destructive manner.

This earth is a theater for the universe to reveal what the transgression of God's laws does.
This is true not only of the laws governing morality, but also of God's laws governing nature.

Yes, God does hold things back to allow His message of salvation to do its saving work, and yes, in spite of human manipulations God is still in control. However He will allow sin to fully display it's effect on nature and human beings -- especially as we near the end.

And when it's all over, it will be obvious to all, that God's dealings were just; Satan has no more claim that God's laws are arbitrary and restrictive of human (or angel) advancement and happiness. It has been shown beyond any question or doubt that breaking or manipulating God's laws brings destruction.

When God does execute judgment the exclamation goes forth --
"Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus....Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments." Rev. 16;5,7

A careful reading of Rev. 16, shows God is declared just, because He has turned the sinful deeds back upon the perpetuators of those deeds -- they are reaping what they sowed.


No, I can't go as far as APL on this, as scripture reveals that there were times when God stepped in to execute judgment, and God will execute judgment at Christ's coming, He is in control, but the conditions of destructiveness in our world are due to the transgression of the laws of God that govern nature, (as well as morality) and are the result of human manipulation, disregard and outright defiance of those laws.

Amen! In addition to our abuse of natural resources - forest fires, earthquakes, volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes, solar flares, etc. Man-made and natural disasters are disrupting the balance of nature. Nevertheless, nature is not self-acting. It does what it does because Jesus does what He does.

Is the Law of God intrinsic with what He has made or is it extrinsic, more like our legislated laws? Intrinsic laws care their own consequences, such as the laws of nature; gravity, etc. Legislated laws such as speed limit laws do not care inherent consequences if broken, the punishment must be imposed. Are God's judgments imposed penalties? Or are God's judgment a declaration of truth as it is and the resultant consequences are not imposed but the sinner reaps that which he has sown? Hosea 4:17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.

Sin was allowed because the universe did not understand that the natural consequences of sin was death. If God had let the natural consequences of sin play out with Satan, the universe would have misunderstood and would have served God from fear.

God is not the source of sickness, disease or death. This is the work of an antagonistic power. Satan is the destroyer, God is the restorer.

"The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes."

Which attributes?

Actually, the point is she was not talking about nature destroying things. The point is you are misusing what she was saying.

What do you suppose would happen if Jesus ceased acting and caused the forces of nature to cease to act?

Excepting MM says that Jesus causes disease.