APL, you and I both agree Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to murder innocent women and children. You have made this point abundantly clear.


Do you believe Jesus permitted Satan to murder the Amorites with great hailstones?

And, do you believe Jesus permitted Satan to stay the sun and moon so that the Israelites could finish murdering the Amorites?

What do the SOP quotes I listed above say? Read them.

Okay. I read them. They didn't say what you believe.

1) Do you believe Jesus permitted Satan to murder the Amorites with great hailstones?

2) And, do you believe Jesus permitted Satan to stay the sun and moon so that the Israelites could finish murdering the Amorites?

PS - If I was asked how I think you would answer the two questions above, I would say, "I suspect he would say, Yes, to both questions."

I believe you are talking about total and complete ceasing to act here.

But what about a partial ceasing to act? Such as in the area of disease? If God ceased acting in the area of disease, would you expect everyone to suddenly become healthy or would you expect disease to run rampant? That is, does God cause disease, or does God protect from disease?

The heart of what I'm asking has some connotations and maybe even irony with Pasteur -vs- Bechamp. And even to do with creation. Did God create disease?

Molecules are the building blocks of everything. Nothing exists or works without them. Not one molecule, however, is self-acting. They would simply cease to exist if Jesus ceased to act. They cannot supply the lack if Jesus chose to act partially. Disease can do what it does because Jesus does what He does. When He permits Satan to wield disease as a weapon Jesus must continue to act. Otherwise it would simply cease to exist.

So God is the cause of evil.

The God of nature is perpetually at work. His infinite power works unseen, but manifestations appear in the effects which the work produces. The same God who guides the planets works in the fruit orchard and in the vegetable garden. He never made a thorn, a thistle, or a tare. These are Satan's work, the result of degeneration, introduced by him among the precious things; but it is through God's immediate agency that every bud bursts into blossom. When He was in the world in the form of humanity, Christ said: "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." John 5:17. So when the students employ their time and strength in agricultural work, in heaven it is said of them, Ye "are laborers together with God." 1 Corinthians 3:9. {6T 186.2}

Satan can do only what Jesus permits. Jesus is the source of life. Not Satan. Disease does what it does because Jesus does what He does - supplies the life to act.

"The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes." In this context she is referring to the attribute of vengeance.

Said the angel, "Their sins and pride have reached unto heaven. Their portion is prepared. Justice and judgment have slumbered long, but will soon awake. Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, saith the Lord." The fearful threatenings of the third angel are to be realized, and all the wicked are to drink of the wrath of God. An innumerable host of evil angels are spreading over the whole land and crowding the churches. These agents of Satan look upon the religious bodies with exultation, for the cloak of religion covers the greatest crime and iniquity. {EW 274.1}

God will restrain His anger but little longer. . . It is solemn mockery; Satan exults over it and reproaches Jesus and His angels with such inconsistency, saying, with hellish triumph, "Such are Christ's followers!" {EW 275.1}

Said the angel, "It will be more tolerable for the heathen and for papists in the day of the execution of God's judgment than for such men." . . . God's anger will not cease until He has caused this land of light to drink the dregs of the cup of His fury, until He has rewarded unto Babylon double. Reward her even as she rewarded you, double unto her double according to her works; in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double." {EW 275.2}

The forbearance of God has been very great--so great that when we consider the continuous insult to His holy commandments, we marvel. The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. But He will certainly arise to punish the wicked, who so boldly defy the just claims of the Decalogue. {PK 276.2}

There will soon be a sudden change in God's dealings. The world in its perversity is being visited by casualties,--by floods, storms, fires, earthquakes, famines, wars, and bloodshed. The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power; yet He will not at all acquit the wicked. "The Lord hath His way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of His feet." O that men might understand the patience and longsuffering of God! He is putting under restraint His own attributes. His omnipotent power is under the control of Omnipotence. O that men would understand that God refuses to be wearied out with the world's perversity, and still holds out the hope of forgiveness even to the most undeserving! But His forbearance will not always continue. Who is prepared for the sudden change that will take place in God's dealing with sinful men? Who will be prepared to escape the punishment that will certainly fall upon transgressors? {FE 356.2}

The attributes of God must be made to appear. Of the stability of his government there must be no question. And the Son of God himself proposed to carry forward the work to the end, to gain the victory over the prince of darkness and over all his allies. "Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth the winefat? I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me; for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." {YI, April 15, 1897 par. 13}

Men are prone to abuse the long-suffering of God, and to presume on His forbearance. But there is a point in human iniquity when it is time for God to interfere; and terrible are the issues. "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked" (Nahum 1:3). The long-suffering of God is wonderful, because He puts constraint on His own attributes; but punishment is nonetheless certain. Every century of profligacy has treasured up wrath against the day of wrath; and when the time comes, and the iniquity is full, then God will do His strange work. It will be found a terrible thing to have worn out the divine patience; for the wrath of God will fall so signally and strongly that it is presented as being unmixed with mercy; and the very earth will be desolated. It is at the time of the national apostasy, when, acting on the policy of Satan, the rulers of the land will rank themselves on the side of the man of sin--it is then the measure of guilt is full; the national apostasy is the signal for national ruin. {2SM 372.3}