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Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171339
01/15/15 12:18 AM
01/15/15 12:18 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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You should be trembling before your Maker. Why? I'm not afraid of Jesus. He is my friend and Savior. I have nothing to be afraid of.
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Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171412
01/20/15 02:29 PM
01/20/15 02:29 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Midland
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Afraid? I suppose if one has such a view of Jesus as you do, that word would have came to mind. And such one should be very afraid of angering such a god by painting such a terrible, awful, and horrible picture of him.
But it wasn't a trembling in fear I had in mind. What I had in mind was a nakedness of soul trembling. A trembling in shame, in utter abhorrence of what you have said about our loving Creator and Redeemer who came to give His life so we could be redeemed to Him. He is not our destroyer.
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Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171420
01/20/15 05:46 PM
01/20/15 05:46 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Southwest USA
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Kland, you didn't address this post: M: Jesus slew King Saul by withdrawing His protection and permitting him to be wounded and to end his own life. Jesus could have intervened and prevented it from happening. But He choose not to. He worked to ensure things played out the way they did. The outcome was not left to fate or chance.
K: I'd say we should view those quotes as you view the slaying Saul. Even though the Bible directly says God slew Saul, you say He withdrew His protection and permitted him to be wounded and to end his own life. Same here. Same here? You'll need to explain. In the passages posted above no one was shot by an arrow and no one fell on a sword to kill themselves. For example: And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow. Ex 4:6. No fatal arrow wound. No falling on a sword to commit suicide. What happened in this specific case? What role did Jesus play? What role did Satan play? Another example: Immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales. Acts 9:18. Again, no fatal arrow wound. No falling on a sword to commit suicide. What happened in this specific case? What role did Jesus play? What role did Satan play? PS - You wrote - "I'd say we should view those quotes as you view the slaying Saul." Are you sure? Look a little closer. I doubt you agree with what I said. In particular - "He worked to ensure things played out the way they did."
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Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171481
01/24/15 03:18 PM
01/24/15 03:18 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Southwest USA
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Kland, you believe my portrayal of God paints "a terrible, awful, and horrible picture of him." And yet you believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to murder innocent women and children.
What makes this view even more difficult to appreciate is the fact you also believe sin pays its wages - it is not Jesus that destroys sinners but sin itself. You believe Jesus protects sinners from suffering the destructive effects of sin when they sin. You believe He need only withdraw His protection and sin will naturally destroy them.
Your belief begs the question - Since sin destroys sinners, why does Jesus use His enemies and the forces of nature to punish and destroy them? Why doesn't He simply allow sin to do it? Also, why does He allow evil men and evil angels to murder innocent women and children?
So far you have not answered these questions. APL at least suggested Jesus permits such things because He respects the freewill of evildoers. Although, Jesus does not allow evil men and evil angels to run riot without establishing and enforcing specific limitations and restrictions. They are not free to murder innocent women and children without His express permission and within His well-defined restrictions.
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Re: The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#171538
01/27/15 04:30 PM
01/27/15 04:30 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Kland, what do you think? When Jesus told Moses to slip his hand in and out of his clothes and it became leprous as snow - who made Moses' arm leprous, Jesus or Satan? Exodus 4:6 And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand [was] leprous as snow. 4:7 And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his [other] flesh. And, from whom and whence came the fire that consumed Nadab and Abihu? Did it come from Satan's presence in the holy of holies? Nadab and Abihu were priests of the sanctuary, and although it was not lawful to use common fire, these priests, when they went in before God, presumed to kindle their incense with unconsecrated fire. The priests had been indulging in the use of wine, and their moral sensibilities were benumbed; they did not discern the character of their actions, or realize what would be the fearful consequences of their sin. A fire blazed out from the holy of holies and consumed them. {Te 280.1}
Nadab and Abihu, by drinking wine, beclouded their reasoning faculties, and so lost their sense of sacred things, that they thought they could as well offer common fire as sacred. God did not excuse them because the brain was confused. Fire from his presence destroyed them in their sin. Some look with horror upon men who have been overcome with liquor, and are seen reeling and staggering in the street, while at the same time they are gratifying their appetite for things differing in their nature from spirituous liquor, but which injure the health, affect the brain, and destroy their high sense of spiritual things. The liquor-drinker has an appetite for strong drink which he gratifies, while another has no appetite for intoxicating drinks to restrain, but he desires some other hurtful indulgence, and does not practice self-denial any more than the drunkard. {4aSG 125.1}
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