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Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: dedication] #171519
01/27/15 05:06 AM
01/27/15 05:06 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline OP
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
Those articles are what "uninspired" men had to say, their opinions. This is all the more the reason for validating what the Lord's lesson of Zech.4 makes. Inspired prophets are to interpret the prophecies. Not Uriah Smith, James White or Dedication. Thanks for giving us a good example.

Now, if you find EGW writes something to your liking concerning Isaiah 2:2-4, I'm all ears, or in this case--eyes.

So your point of using them to back up your view that Isaiah 2:2-4 does not mean what it clearly says, falls short.

"Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the Lord. (Jer. 17:15)

"The language of the Bible should be explained according to it's obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed. Christ has given the promise: "if any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine" (John 7:17. If men would but take the Bible as it reads, if there were no false teachers to mislead and confuse their minds, a work would be accomplished that would make angels glad and that would bring into the fold of Christ thousands who are now wandering in error." (GC, p.598-599)

Last edited by Godsloveandlaw; 01/27/15 05:07 AM.
Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: dedication] #171529
01/27/15 08:21 AM
01/27/15 08:21 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
Scripture itself shows that what these Adventist pioneers wrote is correct.

Remember Quotation Marks are NOT INSPIRED.
They are the works of men -- and they are NOT in the KJV.

Why should I rely on the works of modern bible translator's quotation marks for my understanding????
The grammar in the passage clearly shows who is talking --

Just as an example -- if someone were to write:

The young folks said, Let us go to the church, to the house of the Lord, and we will hear God's message and the preacher will tell those that bully people to stop, and they will stop bullying people, for in church the Word of God is spoken. So let us all go to church.
Therefore the parents grounded them because they were only going there to avoid doing their homework.


Would you know who said what?


Originally Posted By: dedication


The only way to determine who says what is to carefully look for the grammatical "VOICE" in the passage.


Basic English grammar confirms that VERSES 3-5 are all in the "WE/US" voice showing it is the people speaking.

Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

2:6 Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and [are] soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.


It is the people talking

They keep saying "LET US" "WE WILL" "LET US" showing it is still the people talking all through verse 3-5.



This is not God speaking, this is the people speaking.
The grammar confirms it.

So yes it is the people saying everything in those verses.

These people THINK they are building God's kingdom.


In verse 6 there is a change in "voice".
It is no more the "US" and "WE" voice.

Now Isaiah is speaking
saying
Therefore "Thou" referring to God
hast forsaken "them"
referring to the people who were talking in verses 3-5.

Why has God forsaken them.

Because they be replenished from east (false religious ideas??) southsayers (false prophets???) They aren't really listening to God at all.

Now notice -- these many people say --

"nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

They are saying the nations will not learn war any more.

BUT scripture shows something very different for at Christ's second coming:
Rev. 19:19 the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse,


This passage (as well as it's equivalent in Micah 4) tell us that there will be a counterfeit kingdom gathering in the "mount of the Lord" just before Christ comes, but it does not go well with them as the rest of the chapter depicts.




Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #171530
01/27/15 09:04 AM
01/27/15 09:04 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
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Since the SRod uses that passage in Isaiah 2:2-5 as proof of an earthly, temporary, righteous kingdom in present day Jerusalem -- to send forth the law from Zion and the word of the Lord from Jersualem. ---

What does EGW say?

Quote:
"Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes. EW 75

Quote:


To the last, they (the disciples) looked for a temporal kingdom, to be established at Jerusalem. Christ's revelation of the scenes to take place at the destruction of Jerusalem, they associated with his personal coming, when he himself would punish the Jews, but would also free them from Roman bondage. He had told them definitely that he would come a second time, and they thought that probably his judgments would fall upon those who had rejected his love. He would then, they thought, lay low every stone in the temple; for they believed that no earthly power could do this....

"But as the days of Noe were," Christ continued, "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Christ does not here bring to view a temporal millennium,--a thousand years in which all are to prepare for eternity. He tells us that as it was in Noah's day, so will it be when the Son of man comes. {RH, December 27, 1898 par. 10}

Remember the warning, "As the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." It was because of the wickedness of the inhabitants of the old world, that they were destroyed; and today the world is following in the same way. No flattering signs of millennial glory are to be seen.

Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: dedication] #171572
01/29/15 12:27 PM
01/29/15 12:27 PM
J
JAK  Offline
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Active Member 2018
Banned
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
dedication, could you just sort out this little discrepancy:
Originally Posted By: dedication
(I'm not the one advocating that no one has the right to interpret scripture --- I believe everyone needs to prayerfully ask the Holy Spirit to lead them to truth as they ponder the things in scripture)


From the "Why is rejection of the SOP happening?" thread:
Originally Posted By: dedication
People are rejecting Ellen White's writings so they can interpret scriptures for themselves, yet obviously everyone interprets it differently.

Originally Posted By: dedication
... it amazes me how people can now toss her writings out so they can adjust their understanding of the Bible more closely to the new age ways.


The first quote says you should study for yourself, the second two say you should let EGW tell you what Scripture says.

So, we can "interpret" Scripture for ourselves, as long as we come to the same conclusion EGW does.


Last edited by JAK; 01/29/15 12:34 PM.

"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #171583
01/30/15 02:20 AM
01/30/15 02:20 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,701
Canada
Personally, I have found EGW's messages to be inspired, leading us to scripture and to Christ. It's absolutely amazing for me to see how her interpretations of prophecies are now being fulfilled, prophecies that many scoffed at in years past. And yes, people have to push EGW aside if they want to accept the modern popular movements that she predicted would arise and lead many astray.

However -- what you believe is between you and God and your study of scripture.
That is where you must find truth and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you into truth.

Scriptures come first --
Even Paul tells us the Berans were more noble because after they heard Paul's message they went home to study the scriptures to see if his words were true.

1 Thess. 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: JAK] #171586
01/30/15 03:04 AM
01/30/15 03:04 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline OP
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
Jak- what I have found from Dedication is that she strongly believes her spin on what she says. The Lord had to deal with the Pharisees and SOP says this--


"When their questions have been fairly answered, they turn the subject and bring up another point to avoid acknowledging the truth. [u]We should beware of indulging the spirit which controlled the Jews."

we did a post that addresses this exact situation and may the Lord forgive me for indulging Dedication more often than I should have.

Pharisee post

I will address those certain areas that I am led to address but I shall not waste my time as I know that it is "casting pearls before swine." I say this not with joy as she has the ability to learn just as many others can, and if the "Spirit of Truth" was to indeed guide her a good work would be performed before the Lord "takes the reins into His own hands." (Testimonies to Minsters, p.300)

The trouble is , she does not know what this 'taking the reins into His own hands" is about. Her idea of church purification is that the 'bad guys" run out of the church in the time of the Sunday law.This soundly falls flat on it's face according to both Scripture and SOP and of course the rejected Elijah message, which she hates.

Last edited by Godsloveandlaw; 01/30/15 03:06 AM.
Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #171589
01/30/15 03:36 AM
01/30/15 03:36 AM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Everyone spins Scripture to suit themselves. But of the two of you, dedication is a lot closer to reality.

Last edited by JAK; 01/30/15 03:47 AM.

"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: JAK] #171592
01/30/15 05:05 AM
01/30/15 05:05 AM
G
Godsloveandlaw  Offline OP
SDA
Supporting Member 2015
Active Member 2015

Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 500
Coachella Valley, Cailf.
No problem with each ones opinion, let's hope the Truth wins pray
We made a post you might like "help, I can't see"

Last edited by Godsloveandlaw; 01/30/15 06:53 AM.
Re: Understanding TWO probations from Scripture and SOP [Re: Godsloveandlaw] #171605
01/30/15 06:36 PM
01/30/15 06:36 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Oh, don't worry. I can see just fine, and I need no person to tell me what I'm looking at.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
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