You did miss the point. No I wasn't supporting a 31AD date but a 33AD date. Let me be brief with the main points :

-I stand by 33 AD where Nisan 14th is on Friday and all the Spring Feasts are fulfilled at the appointed time and no laws are broken with the accounts of the gospels. (see the 33AD scenario in the post #171542). Also a 33AD date correlates with other astronomical occurences that marks Jesus birth, Herode's death, and Jesus death by which the 31AD doesn't. We can look at these more closely also if anyone is interested.

-On 31AD Nisan 14th falls on Thursday and Nisan 15th falls on a Friday.
-Rosangela says :
....a) Jesus fulfilled the eating of the Passover with His disciples on the appointed time(on thursday night which was the beginning of Nisan 15th on 31AD) and
....b)He did NOT die on Nisan 14th but on Friday Nisan 15th.

With Rosangela point of view, I layed out all the Spring feast events with a 31AD scenario according to the gospel in the same post #171542) . I believe this is what Rosangela believe, but I may be wrong and I hope she will show me were my understanding is wrong.

In Red of the 31AD scenario is where Jesus did NOT fulfill the Spring Feasts at the appointed time and where the laws would be broken with the gospel accounts.

With Rosangela 31AD view, only the eating of the paschal lamb with His disciples would fulfill the law by which she believe that fulfillment is greather than the death of Jesus fulfill on a appointed time.

I think this is totally non sense(look at all the red section). I understand why she's considering to stick with 31AD, because for admitting the error and changing to the 33AD date would mean the whole collapse of the SDA timeline including 1844. That's the price that many will not be willing to pay.



The Jews were very particular about not working on the Sabbath; thus I doubt very much they will go to the lenght of doing an arrest, and public tribunal process (both civil work) on the Sabbath. Whether or not they are concern about this or if they did break the Sabbath doesn't really matter.

What really matters in this is all the Spring Feast TYPES(Death of Paschal Lamb on Nisan 14th, Jesus ressurection not coinciding with Wave sheaf offering on 16th, Omer count ending with 8 Sabbaths, Pentecost not fulfilled on Sunday, and etc...) that was NOT fulfill on the appointed time with a 31 AD scenario where Nisan 14th falls on a Thursday.

Luc 22:1 And the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, drew near. ...
Luc 22:7 And the day of the Unleavened Bread came, when the passover must be killed. ...
Luc 22:14 And when the hour came, He and the twelve apostles with Him reclined.
Luc 22:15 And He said to them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer.

Mat 26:17 And on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, Where do You desire that we prepare for You to eat the Passover? ...
Mat 26:20 And when evening had come, He sat down with the Twelve.

Several things to notice here. First, the evangelist mentions that the Feast of Unleavened Bread was approaching. Then, he says that it came. If the day began at sunset, how could he say, several hours before sunset [since the Passover still had to be prepared], that the day had come? Of course he was referring to the day which had begun on the previous sunset – which, of course, was the Passover day, the day “when the Passover must be killed.” The Passover was eaten at the sunset which marked the transition between the 14th and the 15th. That’s why, “when the hour came” [notice, a precise hour], Christ and the disciples took their places to eat it. Matthew says, “when evening had come [of course a reference to sunset], He sat down with the Twelve”.


All the types were fulfilled at the appointed time. Christ’s sacrifice didn’t have to occur at the same moment the sacrifice occurred in a feast. There were sacrifices at Passover, at Pentecost, at the Day of Atonement, at Tabernacles. This means that the death of Christ was the basis for all those events in the history of salvation, not that it should occur at the moment that it occurred in any of those feasts. Besides, the sacrifice during Passover was individual, and, after noon, several hours were spent slaying all the sacrifices of the people. So, as I said in my previous post, there was not a precise hour for the Passover sacrifice, while the evening sacrifice was offered at a precise hour – 3 p.m.

As already pointed out, the high point of the feast was not the Passover sacrifice, but the Passover meal, when the Passover lamb and the unleavened bread were eaten – which symbolized the personal appropriation of Christ’s sacrifice. Christ ate the last Passover and, at the same time, replaced it by the Lord’s Supper.

The emblems Christ left us in remembrance of His sacrifice were connected not to Nisan 14, but to Nisan 15. Christ was the antitype not only of the Passover lamb, but also of the unleavened bread. And type met the antitype not only when He died on the cross, but also when He instituted the Lord’s Supper, giving to His disciples the unleavened bread to eat and the sweet wine to drink. The end of sacrifices and the transition from the old to the new covenant began at the paschal supper.

So, Christ died on the day the Passover lamb and the unleavened bread were eaten and was resurrected on the day the sheaf was waved.


Where does the type of the unleavened bread fit in this scenario?


Not at this moment. At least this is not the position of the SDABC, an official publication.


Animals for offerings could be prepared on ceremonial sabbaths and, probably, could also be bought.


The Passover in Egypt was different in some details from the subsequent Passovers. In the subsequent Passovers this no longer applied, nor the command to take a bunch of hyssop and dip it in the blood of the paschal lamb, touching the lintel and the two doorposts, nor the command to eat the Passover standing, with the loins girt, shoes on, and a staff in the hand.


Really? Except it was a matter of “national security.” Did you know the Jews fought wars on the weekly Sabbath? Do you remember they went to Pilate on the weekly Sabbath to ask him for soldiers and to ask that measures be taken to secure Christ’s tomb (Matt. 27:62-66)?


This was an emergency. If someone dies on the Sabbath won’t you buy a coffin?


The pharisaical interpretation is strained. It’s hard to swallow that “Sabbath” means “seven days,” but it’s even worse that it means “ceremonial sabbath” and “seven days” in the very same verse.


Nowhere does the law say that “Nisan 16” is the day when the sheaf is waved. It says “the morrow after the Sabbath,” which is a Sunday.


No, the SDABC defends Christ died on a Nisan 14, and I believe Pentecost always fell on a Sunday.


33 A.D. is too late for the chronological data to fit. 30 A.D. would be much more reasonable. I would choose 30 A.D. if I believed Christ died on a Nisan 14.


And what do you think is the reason why many non-SDA theologians side with a Nisan 15 for Christ’s death?

But if Passover days are referred to in general, why couldn't it be 31 AD?

??? Could you elaborate what you mean?

I understood you saying "the Passover" can refer to any number of days during the time. So when someone said "the Passover", one would not know if it was preparatory to Passover, Passover, or one of the days of the unleavened bread. That is, no specific day could be affixed.

Yes. So, the context defines what someone is referring to specifically.

To make things even messier is the Chagigah (peace offering) was also referred as Passover, or day of unleavened bread, or Pentecost, or Feast of Tabernacle, or just generally as "festival offering" which is the literal meaning of chagigah. So, it all depends on the context also for the usage of the peace offering. Like I said previously, many Jewish scholars teach that there were two Chagigah, one eaten at the evening of Nisan 14th, and the other eaten at the evening of Nisan 15th.

Someone that has kept the feasts and knows the rituals, have less struggles to understand these expressions, however for us who never, it can get quite confusing.

Looking at the Context of the Last Supper

Let’s look at the context Luke, Mark, and Matthew used in their expression :

AV Lk 22:7 “ Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. 8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. ”

AV Mk 14:12 . “And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? ”

AV Mt 26:17 . “ Now the first [day] of the [feast of] unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? ”

Context says :
A) Two accounts say it was the day “when the passover must be killed”.
B) All three accounts relates to this day as a day “to prepare to eat the passover”

This can be nothing else than Nisan 14th that starts in the evening by removing all leavened in the house and cleaning the place. They had the whole day(evening and next day) to do so. The remaining of the leavened bread could be eaten that day(Nisan 14th), but not on the evening of Nisan 15th and for 7 days afterwards. The lamb was killed close to the end of the preparation day, between the evenings(noon and 5pm).

John’s gospel was written much later than the first 3 gospels. He most likely had read the 3 gospels accounts. We see that John wrote his account by often not repeating what was said previsously and providing additional information that the first 3 gospels didn’t provide. Also, these additional details or his way of expression at time clarifies some things that we don't get from the 3 other gospels. So, I will treat John's account with this in mind. I won't treat his account as him differing from the other 3 gospels, but I believe his account is in harmony with the 3 others while providing different information of the events to bring a deeper or clearer understanding.

AV Jn 13:1 “Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. 2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him; ”

John said that supper was “before the feast of the Passover”. Then again in v.29, John mentions that before Judas left the supper, some disciples thought Jesus instructed Judas to go buy things for the (Passover) feast. So again, it is clear that this was not the Passover meal for it didn’t had come yet and they were still in the preparation day when they ate that last supper.(Evening of Nisan 14th).


They ate Leavened Bread during the Last Supper

Another point that I haven’t mentioned before, is that the 4 gospels(Mt 26:26; Mk 14:22; Lk 22:19; Jn 13:18) and Paul (1Co 10:16,17; 1Co 11:23,26-28) all refers to the bread of that meal as (leavened) bread. By default the Greek word artos means leavened bread. It's root word is airo that means "to lift up". If the bread is unleavened, then the word azumos(unleavened) needs to be used in conjunction with artos(bread).

If that meal was the 1st meal of unleavened bread as Rosangela thinks, then at least in one account we would of found the word azumos(unleavened) next to artos, for that’s was the main focus of such a meal in the evening of Nisan 15th.

In the evening of Nisan 14th(and also during the day), leavened bread could be eaten as in any other days.

If you read the early church testimonies and accounts of when they kept the rememberance meal, they always used leavened bread. It was only after the 7th century that this understanding and practice got lost and replaced with unleavened bread.

No, this can be nothing else than the Nisan 14th that had started on the previous sunset, for it refers to the preparation of the Passover sacrifice.


John doesn't say that at all. You are reading into the text what is not there.


Why would Jesus instruct Judas to buy things for the Passover feast at that time of the night if Nisan 14 was just beginning and he had the whole morning next day to buy things? Rather, the disciples thought Judas was going to buy the necessary things for the chagigah, which was offered on Nisan 15, just after the morning sacrifice.


?????

Mark 14:12 And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the Passover lamb, his disciples said to him, "Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the Passover?"

Luc 22:7 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed.

So they ate leavened bread after the first day of Unleavened Bread had arrived? Your argument is a very strange one. Not to mention that you hold that in the sentence "then came the day of Unleavened Bread" the verb "came" doesn't mean "came" at all, for it refers to a day that would come several hours later, at sunset. Pay attention to this: "On the first day of Unleavened Bread ... his disciples said to him, 'Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the Passover?'". ON the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples asked Jesus where they should prepare the Passover meal. It isn't referring to the following day, but to the day in course, which would end at sunset.


No, it doesn't. It means "bread" in a generic sense. In 1 Samuel 21:6, for instance: "So the priest gave him the holy bread, for there was no bread there but the bread of the Presence, which is removed from before the LORD, to be replaced by hot bread on the day it is taken away." Here, referring to the bread of the Presence (which is unleavened bread) the LXX uses arton thermon, "hot bread;" there is no need to use azumon.

Mark 14:12 is very clear. Two words are used: the verb thuo (to sacrifice, kill, slay) and the word pascha (Passover, Passover lamb). "To kill the Passover" - the chagigah would never be referred to in this way.

Could you cite the passages which confirm this?

Just a hunch, but would Elle say Jesus ate lamb and/or was lamb part of their passover meal that night?