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Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: JAK] #172058
02/25/15 02:38 AM
02/25/15 02:38 AM
B
Bobryan  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2015
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: JAK
So...Just what is the statement under discussion?


Irrefutable evidence of 7 statements that start getting fleshed out in the first two posts --

These statements are an example of claims made by the majority of pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.[/quote]

Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: Mountain Man] #172059
02/25/15 02:44 AM
02/25/15 02:44 AM
B
Bobryan  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2015
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
I'm waiting for the irrefutable evidence.


The quote from D.L. Moody is an example representing the founder of the "Moody Bible Institute" - a pro-sunday source affirming the continued authority of the Sabbath Commandment and demonstrating all 7 points of my "7 point list" -- claimed by such pro-sunday groups.

Here is another quote also demonstrating 6 of those 7 points for the Westminster Confession of Faith.

"Westminster Confession of Faith"
Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1.[/quote]

Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: Bobryan] #172067
02/25/15 02:45 PM
02/25/15 02:45 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Bobryan
demonstrating all 7 points of my "7 point list"
So is this list your belief, or Moody's? This was not clear. dunno


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: Mountain Man] #172068
02/25/15 02:48 PM
02/25/15 02:48 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Did I say something different about the covenant's?
Um...No, you said nothing at all about the covenants. You could not explain the difference...


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: Bobryan] #172069
02/25/15 02:52 PM
02/25/15 02:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Bobryan, it is interesting to learn their reasons for believing the moral law is still binding.

Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: JAK] #172070
02/25/15 02:56 PM
02/25/15 02:56 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: JAK
M: Did I say something different about the covenant's?

J: Um...No, you said nothing at all about the covenants. You could not explain the difference...

You didn't agree with my explanation. I posted a Bible study by Joe Crews. It also explained it very nicely.

Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: JAK] #172072
02/25/15 03:06 PM
02/25/15 03:06 PM
B
Bobryan  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2015
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: JAK
Originally Posted By: Bobryan
demonstrating all 7 points of my "7 point list"
So is this list your belief, or Moody's? This was not clear. dunno


In my 7 point list - I state that I agree with 6 of the 7 points.

And of course a great majority of pro-sunday scholars will promote all 7 of those points not just 6 of them. I think the 7th point is in error.

Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: Mountain Man] #172073
02/25/15 03:08 PM
02/25/15 03:08 PM
B
Bobryan  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2015
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Bobryan, it is interesting to learn their reasons for believing the moral law is still binding.


Indeed they quote from Gen 2:1-3 so also does the "Baptist Confession of Faith".

And they separate out the Moral, Civil and Ceremonial laws - placing the Ten Commandments in the "moral law" binding on all mankind from Eden to this very day - including the saints.

The interesting thing is that often SDAs are fighting that very same battle on those very same points - with non-SDA's who are in fact in opposition against all 7 points. As if it is just an issue between them and SDAs.

Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: Mountain Man] #172077
02/25/15 03:50 PM
02/25/15 03:50 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
You didn't agree with my explanation. I posted a Bible study by Joe Crews. It also explained it very nicely.

True, I didn't (with certain caveats).
But, the problem is, I didn't ask Joe Crews for his explanation, I asked you for yours.
I can go to multiple websites, all explaining the covenants, none of which agree with each other.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Irrefutible evidence for all TEN Commandments remaining [Re: Bobryan] #172079
02/25/15 05:11 PM
02/25/15 05:11 PM
B
Bobryan  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2015
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Georgia, USA
Jer 31:31-33 says that the New Covenant includes the Law of God written on the heart and mind- just as we find in Hebrews 8.

Gal 1:6-9 says that there has always been -- only 1 Gospel no matter if you are in OT or NT.

The New Covenant is that "1" Gospel in the form of Covenant.

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