No. That's why what you're proclaiming is a false dichotomy.

And I think you see the problem. That's why you refuse to plainly answer my simple questions. I just hope that it is also clear to whoever reads this thread.

Is this pattern a PHYSICAL object that resides in another PHYSICAL object called the memory of God?

APL, I would appreciate it if you would answer Arnold's question (see his last post above - #174058).

I’m interested in studying this subject. I hope you don’t mind me budding in. I watch ¾ of the video and read up to page 3 of this discussion.

I believe we have some confusion with what is the soul versus what is the Spirit. I agree with the video presentation which portray the soul/character is in the mind-brain. I think this is in harmony with what the Bible teach.

Let’s go to Gn 2:7 and see what Hebrew words was used to define a soul :

AV Gn 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath[nashamah] of life; and man became a living soul[nephesh].

First notice that the Hebrew word Ruach is not used in this text. Ruach is the word that denotes the Holy Spirit, but it can also mean breath or wind. Genesis 2:7 used nshamah for the breath of life. Strong defines the word as follow : "a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal." It’s root word is nasham which means “properly, to blow away, i.e. destroy.”

In Ecc 12:7 it is the Spirit[ruach] of God that return to Him. It doesn’t mention about what happen to the breath[nshamah]. However, in Job 34:14 it implies that both the Spirit[ruach] and the breath[nshamah] returns to Lord. (AV Jb 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, [if] he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; )

So this is what I’m understanding:
1- Man is made of dust(particles) of the earth (full body & brain)
2- The breath[nshamah] of life is blown in man. The breath here is a vital breath to give life like an animal and not to be confused with the Holy Spirit.
3- Man becomes a “living soul”[nephesh]
Strong defines nephesh , "properly a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)."


I see the following inconsistencies with what scriptures say :
1- We do the error of equating the breath of life in Gn 2:7 as the Spirit [ruach] which is NOT.
2- We mix up the soul(which has our character) with the Spirit thinking that the character returns to God. It is His Spirit that return to Him, the Bible doesn’t say no where that our character returns to Him.

When "something" has LIFE, by definition, it means that it has the potential to reproduce its own kind. These are living things: plants, animals, human beings, GOD. But these things are non-living objects: chair, table, books, rocks, etc. You get the picture. Human beings were made in the image and likeness of God because we were made to resemble Him, to reproduce ourselves at will just like Him, and to conceptualize and realize ideas just like Him. But the material to accomplish those things was "of the earth": our entire being is material. God told Adam, "Dust you are, and to dust you shall return." When you die, all that you are returns to the earth, but the LIFE that you have (the person YOU are), is preserved here.

God illustrated this by making Jesus Christ THE example, of which David spoke.


In other words, when we die, we do NOT go out of existence so that God has to recreate a clone of us. Rather, beyond all human comprehension and science, THE PERSON of our being is put into deep sleep in the womb of the earth as it were until He awakens us and calls us forth, born again, on the Third .... er, sorry, I meant to say ... on the the Last Day. (See Rom. 1:1-4 cf. Hosea 6:1-2)

But SDA preach another gospel saying, "You shall surely die; but be of good cheer, your perfect clone (a creature recreated to be just like you in every way) will live forever instead." They err, not knowing the word or the promise or the prophecy or the power or the glory of God.

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??? James SDAs does not believe this. You should do your homework about their beliefs.

James explain what you understand the Bible describe what the soul is? Is the body the same as the soul? What returns to dust ? and what goes to sleep? Explain what does Ps 16:10 means with our soul goes Sheol? And does the soul differ from our spirit? And what about the Spirit of God when we are born again? Is that different from man's spirit? And what does return to God according to Ecc 12:9? Spirit of man or God's spirit or both?

These are questions that we should seek to be able to answer with scriptures.

Of course they do. Here, from Pastor Doug Batchelor's Amazing Facts website on the state of the dead:


Put plainly, they teach that you go out of existence at death; because you are just body and breath, which when separated, makes you non-existent. In the resurrection then, that which will be, according to them, is merely a remarkably perfect clone of you.

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In a little while I will get back to you about this. In the mean while, you can read Psalm 100.

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Yes I know about we(SDAs) combine body + breath = soul. I now see that this equation is not correct and it is a mis-understanding of Gen 2:7. It is true that any living creature is dependant of the breath of life. Just because that text refers to the breathing man as a "living soul" doesn't prove that equation is correct. There's a reason man is mainly refered to a "soul" because it is the mind(intellect) that is the boss of the body. Like that video showed in the scientific data, it is in the brain-mind that our character is located.

My current understanding is man is body, mind(soul), and spirit. What I see scripture saying is our body(& physcial brain) returns to dust, our soul goes to sheol, and our spirit returns to God.


What you say in quote is not what SDA believe. I think you are adding(extending) to what Doug said quite a bit. Not all SDAs believe like Doug Batchelor. Actually it was the first I ever heard that the soul vanish. I think what I remember hearing from some of my church is they believe that the soul goes back to the ground with the body. I agree with that.