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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: Alchemy]
#174529
06/22/15 07:12 PM
06/22/15 07:12 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Midland
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dedication wrote;
"The Seleucids and Ptolemies were past history -- they were no longer the kings of the north or south by verse 21.
Rome was the new King of the North and Rome continues to be the king of the north till the end of time."
Very well.
My point has always been that Babylon is the king of the north. And that Babylon, or the king of the north, has morphed so-to-speak with different countries at different times in history. But that, Babylon was established as the king of the north after the dividing of Greece.
We see much the same with the king of the south morphing, as I put it, as time goes on. But, as we see today, Egypt is back again. Atheism and pantheism are as strong as ever.
I think here you agreed with dedication that Rome was part of Babylon. And Babylon will include apostate protestantism, of which America is a leader. Babylon was not tied to a specific geographical area. Neither the king of the south.
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: kland]
#174532
06/23/15 02:10 AM
06/23/15 02:10 AM
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SDA Active Member 2018
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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dedication wrote;
"The Seleucids and Ptolemies were past history -- they were no longer the kings of the north or south by verse 21.
Rome was the new King of the North and Rome continues to be the king of the north till the end of time."
Very well.
My point has always been that Babylon is the king of the north. And that Babylon, or the king of the north, has morphed so-to-speak with different countries at different times in history. But that, Babylon was established as the king of the north after the dividing of Greece.
We see much the same with the king of the south morphing, as I put it, as time goes on. But, as we see today, Egypt is back again. Atheism and pantheism are as strong as ever.
I think here you agreed with dedication that Rome was part of Babylon. And Babylon will include apostate protestantism, of which America is a leader. Babylon was not tied to a specific geographical area. Neither the king of the south. Blessings kland, Agreed. As time goes on Babylon will use any country that will join her. But, since 538 AD, the papacy has always been the major component of Babylon. We know there is a little horn in Daniel 7, I see this fulfilled in Peter calling Rome Babylon. And we see Rome has changed very much since then so as to promote the rise of the papacy, the little horn in Daniel 8. As Protestantism has apostatized, these countries have also joined Babylon with the United States leading the way in these last days. We must not forget spiritualism in these last days. This is rising right before our eyes on TV, books, movies and other subtle ways.
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: kland]
#174538
06/23/15 02:57 PM
06/23/15 02:57 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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This is how I read it now: the Supreme Court will declare independence from God this month. God will remove His protection from our godless America. Iran will attack the US fleet in the Gulf. And Obama (the power that is to return to pluck up the third horn from the former Eastern Roman Empire- Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran) will do exploits against the Covenant (Constitution) and Sunday Laws will be close behind.
Tsk, tsk. Have you not learned anything against making predictions? This month. June. Within the next week and half. Sounds like something that can be determined to be true or not. But is it? Will you waffle out of it? How can we determine if it's true or not? ... As I currently read prophecy, when the Supreme Court declares independence from God by implementing an abomination as the law of the land, it will declare independence from God June 2015. Shortly [that can be subjective = a few days, months, or years...though I would not expect it to tarry years] after wickedness is declared to be the law of the land, God will remove His special protection that has preserved America through the centuries. Iran (the king of the South will attack the US fleet in the Gulf) and President Obama (the king of the North) will do exploits against the Covenant (beginning with America's Constitution). And prophecy will be fulfilled in its time in a way that was not expected by those who should have been watching and preparing. we will not have long to wait to see if I'm in the ball park or if your cautious [fearfulness about proclaiming what the word of God means before it happens] is a blessing to you or a curse.
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: Alchemy]
#174540
06/23/15 03:06 PM
06/23/15 03:06 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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My point has always been that Babylon is the king of the north. And that Babylon, or the king of the north, has morphed so-to-speak with different countries at different times in history. But that, Babylon was established as the king of the north ... The question then follows who is Babylon? The woman riding the beast in Rev 17 or the beast itself But as I read it President Obama is now the King of the North and Iran is the king of the south. So how does that fit with the postulation "Babylon is the king of the north"?
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: His child]
#174547
06/23/15 04:30 PM
06/23/15 04:30 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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My point has always been that Babylon is the king of the north. And that Babylon, or the king of the north, has morphed so-to-speak with different countries at different times in history. But that, Babylon was established as the king of the north ... The question then follows who is Babylon? The woman riding the beast in Rev 17 or the beast itself But as I read it President Obama is now the King of the North and Iran is the king of the south. So how does that fit with the postulation "Babylon is the king of the north"? You were quoting Alchemy, though I did write to agree that Rome was the "new Babylon". As to your question -- who is Babylon of Rev. 17? The symbolic woman in prophecy represents the "bride of Christ". A harlot woman represents an unfaithful bride who has other lovers. In other words the "harlot" of Rev. 17 represents apostate Christianity. Rome is the "king of the north" and in ancient times from 312 AD onward to 1798, Rome combined Christianity and political power in one. Thus in Revelation 13 we see a beast with seven heads, representing this combined power of politics and Christianity that morphed from emperors to papacy. When the beast was wounded in 1798 the political power was severed from the papacy. (Freedom of religion unenforced by any political power became the norm in Christendom) The picture in Revelation 17 shows that religion (the woman which represents both Catholicism and apostate Protestantism) unite to revive the old papal supremacy politically enforced system. It is still Papal Rome as the "head" that is healed (apostate Protestantism has ecumenical union with papacy who literally in our day insists she is the "mother church" not a sister) Papal Rome has always USED political governments to enforce religion when it had the power. And the USA will be the big political power, as well as the 10 horns of European nations, that will give their power to re-establish the oppressive beast of the old papal system when "united religions" under papal leadership will supposedly bring "peace" to the world, but in reality bring the greatest time of trouble this world has ever seen. concerning your comment on the president-- The USA is having another election next year. The way I see it -- the democrat presidents largely prepares the things for papal take over in political ways, while the republican presidents do more to prepare things for papal take over in religious ways. The time is just ahead when the USA will give their power in the great attempt to elevate the papacy to world primacy.
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: His child]
#174548
06/23/15 04:36 PM
06/23/15 04:36 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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[fearfulness about proclaiming what the word of God means before it happens]
Could you show where in the Bible it says the Supreme Court of the U.S. declares independence from God in June 2015? But as I read it President Obama is now the King of the North and Iran is the king of the south. So how does that fit with the postulation "Babylon is the king of the north"? You're asking dedication how your chosen specific interpretation fits in with her general interpretation?
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: dedication]
#174575
06/23/15 10:58 PM
06/23/15 10:58 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Iceland
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[
As to your question -- who is Babylon of Rev. 17?
The symbolic woman in prophecy represents the "bride of Christ". A harlot woman represents an unfaithful bride who has other lovers. In other words the "harlot" of Rev. 17 represents apostate Christianity.
Rome is the "king of the north" and in ancient times from 312 AD onward to 1798, Rome combined Christianity and political power in one. Thus in Revelation 13 we see a beast with seven heads, representing this combined power of politics and Christianity that morphed from emperors to papacy.
When the beast was wounded in 1798 the political power was severed from the papacy. (Freedom of religion unenforced by any political power became the norm in Christendom)
The picture in Revelation 17 shows that religion (the woman which represents both Catholicism and apostate Protestantism) unite to revive the old papal supremacy politically enforced system. It is still Papal Rome as the "head" that is healed (apostate Protestantism has ecumenical union with papacy who literally in our day insists she is the "mother church" not a sister)
Papal Rome has always USED political governments to enforce religion when it had the power. And the USA will be the big political power, as well as the 10 horns of European nations, that will give their power to re-establish the oppressive beast of the old papal system when "united religions" under papal leadership will supposedly bring "peace" to the world, but in reality bring the greatest time of trouble this world has ever seen.
concerning your comment on the president-- The USA is having another election next year. The way I see it -- the democrat presidents largely prepares the things for papal take over in political ways, while the republican presidents do more to prepare things for papal take over in religious ways. The time is just ahead when the USA will give their power in the great attempt to elevate the papacy to world primacy. I find it very difficult to disagree with this, dedication. It has been in the development for many year now, closer to its fulfillment these days. We do not see the papacy as the great enemy now because the Muslim powers are doing the killing. A former pope predicted the unification of the muslims with the papacy in the future.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: His child]
#174583
06/24/15 04:41 AM
06/24/15 04:41 AM
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SDA Active Member 2018
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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My point has always been that Babylon is the king of the north. And that Babylon, or the king of the north, has morphed so-to-speak with different countries at different times in history. But that, Babylon was established as the king of the north ... The question then follows who is Babylon? The woman riding the beast in Rev 17 or the beast itself But as I read it President Obama is now the King of the North and Iran is the king of the south. So how does that fit with the postulation "Babylon is the king of the north"? Blessings His child, Babylon is made up of the papacy, apostate protestantism and spiritualism. The woman in Revelation 17 has the name written on her forehead, and can not be on her hand, "Mystery, Babylon the Great".
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: dedication]
#174590
06/24/15 02:44 PM
06/24/15 02:44 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
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You were quoting Alchemy, though I did write to agree that Rome was the "new Babylon".
Thanks for clarifying. As to your question -- who is Babylon of Rev. 17? ... The picture in Revelation 17 shows that religion (the woman which represents both Catholicism and apostate Protestantism) unite to revive the old papal supremacy politically enforced system. ...
Then who is the beast in Revelation 17? If the papal beast in Revelation 13 is being expanded and explained in rev 17, then how can the woman be Catholicism?
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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Re: Identifying the Kings of the North and South - Daniel 11
[Re: His child]
#174592
06/24/15 03:27 PM
06/24/15 03:27 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Then who is the beast in Revelation 17? If the papal beast in Revelation 13 is being expanded and explained in rev 17, then how can the woman be Catholicism?
I think she said, represents both Catholicism and apostate Protestantism.
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