AV Dn 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Daniel 2 is taking about the succession of kingdoms on EARTH. First the 4 Beasts Kingdoms, followed by God's Kingdom that it is said in Daniel 2 to start small as a stone that will grow to a big mountain that will filled the whole EARTH.


AV Re 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

AV Re 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

As far as I know, the earth is made of material things including our bodies. We will still need to eat, have a shelter, and provide for others.

I guess I'm saying that they named their operation to match the dates. And you're saying they picked the dates to match their operation.

Me thinks you are making more out of numbers than they are.

Actually what I was talking about was that there's no transfer of kingdoms which relate to material things. And you shown from your quotes indicating that material things will be swept away.

??? I don't see any of these quote saying that. Could you show me where exactly and explain specifically in what way?




It took me a long time to figure out what you were trying to say. Next time kland, could you please be more explicite with me.

Are you alluding with the notion that "the Kingdom of God is in our heart?

There's two texts that people uses to give this misrepresented notion:

1)Mat 13:19 in Jesus' parable of the sower that symbolizes hearing the word of the kingdom that gets taking from your heart by various means.

2)Luk 17:20 was another one of the Pharisees malecious trick question to find fault in Jesus to excommunicate Him. So Jesus answer was to address what was in their heart. "Luke 17:20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” Some other translation has it "the kingdom of God is inside you" Context says that the translation of entos should be rendered "in your midst" meaning Jesus, the King of the Kingdom, was amoungst their midst and they(the pharisees) couldn't see it. John 3:3 says only those who are born again can see (or understand) the Kingdom of God because the Holy Spirit reveals Christ to them. The Pharisees couldn't see the kingdom because they maleciously preoccupied to find fault in Jesus than in trying to understand (or see) the kingdom.

Now these two texts does not really support that notion. It is true that the words of the Kingdom is in our heart and the King of the kingdom is among our midst; but that's only part of the kingdom.

A kingdom have 4 parts : Land, a King, Laws and subjects.

Since the Lord created the earth therefore by right of ownership He has the right to give land to who ever He wish, to direct all activity on the earth, and to dictate the terms (laws) by which man may live upon any part of the earth.

Sin and death invaded the Kingdom of God temporarily. The Bible tells us that this will be resolve and at the end His glory will cover the whole earth :

AV Num 14:21 But [as] truly [as] I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD. also (Hab 2:14 "For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.",

These two texts sums up the purpose of His Kingdom on earth...so that He may be glorified on earth as in heaven.

According to Daniel 2 and 7, the next kingdom will finally be the long waited for.... the Kingdom of God. And it will be on this earth. Notice that Daniel 2:35 quoted above says that the Kingdom of God will grow gradually untill it fills the whole earth. So the Kingdom of God will start small but will grow to a great mountain. Thus...there will be a lot of building up, evangelizing, organizing, establing the Lord's laws first on our own land until it covers the whole earth, etc... That will take a lot of funds, our talents, etc...

What does the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold represent to you? To me it represents the kingdoms of this earth. They and all that are in it are no more.


Didn't follow you there. What I was talking about is the 2nd coming. Nothing relevant to gold, silver, or money.

By far this does not say that the Lord's everlasting kingdom is not material. The statue being destroyed only show that He established and removed Kingdom on earth(Rom 13).

The Kingdoms of the statue only represented the kingdoms of this earth for a period of time between the Old Israel and the New Israel. Israel was also a Kingdom that the Lord had set up on earth before the status. He also destroyed that Kingdom. Rom 13 says all kingdoms are setup by God which means equally Israel, Babylon, the Roman Empire, the current Mystery Babylon Empire and the last everlasting Kingdom told in Dan 2 & 7 are all Kingdoms the Lord has/will setup. The statue was only a representation of Kingdoms between Israel (who failed to bless all the families in the world, thus their authority was taken from them) and the Kingdom given to the Saints of the Most High (who will succeed to bless everyone and subdue all things under God's feet).

How do you reconcile Daniel 2:35 and Rev 5:10 (and there's many other texts) that explictly says the Messianic Kingdom will be set up on earth? Doesn't these conflict with your notion that the next kingdom is not material and will be in heaven?


Our(SDAs) interpretation and understanding of the 2nd coming is conflicting with so many scriptures and the basic TYPE laid out in the law of the priesthood purpose and the entering of the promised LAND with the Sword(symbolise the Word of God see Rev 19:11-16) that we need to reconsider our position in prayers.

The 2nd coming is relevant with the coming new everlasting Kingdom establish on earth(with material things) where the Saints of the Most High will be priests and kings with Christ to minister and rule over the earth(Dan 2:35;Rev 5:10;Rev 20:6).

Well said!


Re 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

No conflict with SDA interpretation. Are you not familiar with it? Christ comes the second time, we go to heaven for 1000 years, the New Jerusalem descends, after the 1000 years, the wicked are raised and resume their rebellion, die eternally, the earth is renewed and we live and reign here for eternity.


2Ki 5:26 Then he said to him, "Did not my heart go with you when the man turned back from his chariot to meet you? Is it time to receive money and to receive clothing, olive groves and vineyards, sheep and oxen, male and female servants?

Yes I'm very familiar....as I said this interpretation conflict with scriptures. To stay focus on the underlined which is the point you raised in this discussion -- why need wealth or material things in the next Kingdom which you believe will be in heaven?(my paraphrase of your point) Thus you ask for me to provide scripture to show that the next kingdom is material. I did provide just a few direct quotation but there's much more.

Dn 2:35 talks specifically that the next Kingdom start as a stone (the very stone that struck the statue at its feet and destroyed the statue=Kingdoms). It(the stone=everlasting Kingdom given to the Saints of the Most High) will grow to become a great mountain and fill the whole EARTH.

Notice Dn 2:35 doesn't say heaven; but is specific to say the earth. There's no mention that there's an interlude of a 1000 years in heaven between the Beast Kingdoms and the Lord's Kingdom. Nor does Daniel 7 alludes to any interlude of time or place either. The way it is plainly written, is that as soon as the last Beast Kingdom is destroyed, then the earthly kingdom will be transfered to the Saints of the Most High and revelation says they will reign on EARTH(Rev 5:10; Rev 20:6).

We have already addressed this topic in another discussion about 4 years ago where no one could produce any scriptural proof that we will go to heaven during the Millennium. But if you have found any additional proof texts since then, bring them in the appropriate discussion entitled “The 2nd Coming, Judgment, & the 1000 Years”. I’ll be glad to study them with you. See Post #157110 on page 14 which has a summary of the texts discussed so far in the discussion.

My quick update : The news focus a lot on Greece. The Chinese stock market received the greatest blow from the Greek no payment (technically a default however the EU don't want to call it that way and calls it a "delayed payment"). Greece have no intention to pay it, nor can they. So the can is kicked a little further.

Below is what I think is a good summary and perspective of the current world financial news.

Important news updates
Jul 15, 2015
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.net/daily-weblogs/2015/07-2015/important-news-updates/
"
The Greek Austerity Deal

On Monday, July 13, the Greek Prime Minister finally caved in to pressure from the EU and agreed to the austerity measures that the people had voted 61-39% to reject just a week earlier.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/15/greece-debt-crisis-updates_n_7801124.html

However, this deal is not yet established. The only deal was for the Prime Minister to try to sell austerity to the Greek Parliament, which has the power to reject it. Then even if the Parliament accepts the austerity package, it would only begin the time for negotiations.

Meanwhile, it is likely that the Greek people themselves will “storm the Bastille” and will overthrow or bring down their own government before any final “deal” is reached. Many of the people are furious and feel betrayed. What they thought was going to be a democratic process has turned out to be just another dictatorship overruling the people.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/15/greek-government-suffers-defections-as-austerity-vote-looms/21209647/?icid=maing-grid7|legacy|dl2|sec1_lnk3&pLid=-888557476

Essentially, the Prime Minister has put off the problem until September. Or perhaps we should say that he has started throwing the hot potato around, and it is anyone’s guess where it will land.

Iran Nuclear Deal

The nuclear negotiations with Iran have been going on for a long time, and they finally reached an agreement on Tuesday, July 14. Now it is being presented to the US Congress, where they will have 60 days to examine it and vote on it.

Once again, the deal is nowhere near concluded, and it will continue to be debated until September.

July is like September, according to the old revelation. What we see in July tends to be repeated on a greater scale in September. It appears that it is happening again this year.

Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu has probably suffered the greatest defeat by this agreement with Iran. It shows that his influence with the US government is dwindling. He will have to put pressure on President Obama by lighting a fire under the Republican-led Congress and the Christian Zionist churches led by John Hagee (Hagar).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/14/benjamin-netanyahu-iran-deal_n_7792074.html

Little by little, the antichrists (as John would call them) are being overthrown, and the Edomite faction in world Jewry are losing power, both politically and economically. It will not be long before Edom will fall (See the book of Obadiah), and the rulers of Babylon will be replaced by the kings of the east. If you don’t understand those terms or if you don’t know who’s who in Bible prophecy, read my books.

The World Currencies

We are moving steadily and rather quickly now to the end game. It appears that one of the big changes will come in November when the IMF meets to decide policy regarding the basket of currencies and which currencies are “world reserve currencies.” It is widely expected that the Chinese renmimbi (or yuan) will be added to this list when they meet.

There are now seven world currencies, the most dominant being the US dollar and the euro. The British pound is another, and the Swiss franc as well.

By the way, this IMF meeting, some said, was probably to be held on October 20. This was, however, speculation, and it represented someone’s best guess. The IMF has since clarified that their meeting will be held in November.

http://investmentwatchblog.com/this-octo...rrency-markets/

If China’s currency is added to the list of world reserve currencies, expect very big changes to occur, with the US dollar and the euro to fall in value the most. The nations will not need as many dollars or euros to conduct world trade, so they will sell a lot of their reserves in order to make room for a sufficient quantity of yuan. It is doubtful if the US government manipulators will be able to absorb this shock and keep the dollar and the euro from dropping significantly.

It might be a safe bet to convert some of those currencies into tangible assets, such as gold and silver. Right now the price of metals are highly undervalued. The dollar and euro are facing a lot of pressure in the next few months, particularly from Greece, while at the same time the price of gold and silver are below the cost of mining them. If the prices don’t rise soon, some mines could be forced to shut down.
"

My comment : Good points made relating to China increasing need to bring back the gold standard after their recent stock market crash. China said that there Swift system will be ready in September. I haven't posted the article, but the BRICKS Banks was opened and is now in operation just a few weeks ago. So I think that this fall feasts will be quite eventful as things are climaxing at the time of the last tetrad bloody moon.

Credit Deflation & Gold

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-19/credit-deflation-gold
07/19/2015

Submitted by Alasdair Macelod via GoldMoney.com,

There is a common view in financial markets that credit deflation is bad for gold prices, because gold nowadays is regarded as an asset to be sold in the scramble for cash when people are forced to pay down their debts.

When asked by Congressman Ron Paul his opinion on gold four years ago, Ben Bernanke replied it was not money, just another asset, appearing to confirm this view.

Doubtless Bernanke's view is shared by nearly all other central bankers in the advanced economies and by executives in the banks which have profited handsomely from monetary and credit inflation. But it is not shared by the majority of ordinary savers around the world who see it still as the ultimate store of value at a time of fiat currency inflation. For them, gold is the money to save, driven out of circulation by inferior currencies. We know this to be true throughout Asia where the bulk of the world's population lives; but even millions of ordinary Americans continue to accumulate silver eagles because they still recognise the monetary attributes of precious metals.

Crucially, the assumption in capital markets that gold is no longer money but just an asset or commodity has all but destroyed our understanding of its monetary relationships. Financial analysts fail to appreciate the difference in behaviour of sound money compared with that of unsound money during a contraction of bank credit. This can be empirically established by looking at the relationship between gold and the US dollar in the great depression, when bank credit contracted substantially after the Wall Street crash, and gold was then revalued upwards by 69% to $35 in 1935. The whole point of unsound money is that it can be devalued relative to sound money, as it was at that time, in order to stabilise prices that would otherwise fall; a policy option that is not available to central banks adhering to a gold standard.

In the days of a gold - or more correctly - a gold exchange standard, the collapse of excessive bank credit was always sudden, and vicious in proportion to the previous expansion. Since credit was expanded out of thin air by banks without underlying stocks of gold to cover it, inevitably slumping prices became associated with bank failures, and central banks were set up to insulate commercial banks from this brutal reality. Saving over-extended banks always requires the artificial lowering of interest rates and the expansion of the money quantity to restrain the currency's purchasing power from rising against declining commodities. Gold therefore remains a store of value for savers because it cannot be devalued in this way by a central bank.

This is becoming relevant again given that the escalating credit problems in China appear to be leading towards a 1929-style stock market crash, which if it follows the well-established playbook, will be followed by an economic slump. Today China is the largest commercial consumer of commodities, just as America was in the late 1920s, and her slowing economy is putting downward pressure on commodity prices, pushing up the purchasing power of money of the other major currencies. Put another way, falling energy and commodity prices in yuan are forcing deflation upon the rest of us. So even though investors in gold have seen its dollar price trade broadly sideways for the last three years, its purchasing power measured against most commodities has actually been rising. More recently, gold has also been an effective store of value against weaker currencies, notably the euro and yen.

Now that China's credit deflation is beginning to be exported to the US through lower commodity prices, there is a growing assumption that the dollar will strengthen further. This has encouraged hedge funds to sell gold futures to capture the dollar's rise. In terms of purchasing power it is certainly true that the currency has a deflationary element in it. However, if the Federal Reserve refused to expand the quantity of dollars in circulation, abandoning commercial banks to face the full force of a credit contraction, the purchasing power of the dollar would rise as if it were sound money. But the Fed was set up to do the exact opposite, so it has a clear duty to weaken its currency in this event. Therefore, when the balance of risk swings towards a credit contraction in the US, gold will rise against the dollar because the Fed through its monetary policy is certain to ensure it does so.

This will also surprise market traders who think that a continuing collapse in Chinese stock markets will force liquidation of gold holdings by the Chinese public. There is little doubt that distressed speculators will come under pressure to sell gold if they own it, but this argument ignores the certainty that during a credit contraction government-issued currencies always weaken against gold. So having acquired substantial quantities of gold for itself and having also ensured it is widely held by its public, the Chinese government is arguably in a more compelling position to encourage a gold revaluation as a means of stabilising her economy in a credit crisis than America was eighty years ago. It will be China's only option, and if the government doesn't go for it, China's middle classes certainly will.

We are already seeing the People's Bank of China engaging in reflationary policies to contain the stock market crash. This is a normal central bank response. Doubtless it will maintain the managed peg against the US dollar, partly because China is committed to building confidence in her own currency as a replacement for the dollar in international settlements, and partly because currency devaluation would be seen in the markets as a failure of economic policy. Furthermore, China can reasonably expect US monetary policy to do some of its reflationary work for it.

Therefore, instead of devaluing against the dollar, a rise in the yuan gold price is almost certain to occur. Of course, whether or not China revalues her gold reserves remains to be seen, but allowing the price to rise fits in with the logic of the relationship between sound and unsound money when a credit contraction threatens to become a serious issue.

This simple fact could override all the geostrategic considerations upon which China-watchers have tended to focus. A gold revaluation would be presented to the world as bound up with China's domestic economic problems, instead of an act aimed at undermining the dollar's reserve status: a solution that is less confrontational than outright disagreement with Western central banks over gold's role in the international monetary order.