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Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #176527
09/01/15 01:52 PM
09/01/15 01:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Southwest USA
It was necessary to ferret out Achan. Jesus was unable to bless Israel until Achan's sin was dealt with. No doubt the same thing holds true today. The SDA Church (the Remnant Church of prophecy) is, no doubt, chock full of Achan's. People love their pet sins. It is pandemic. Can Jesus bless His Church while so many members are in rebellion? Consider the following insight:

Quote:
The subject of health reform has been presented in the churches; but the light has not been heartily received. The selfish, health-destroying indulgences of men and women have counteracted the influence of the message that is to prepare a people for the great day of God. If the churches expect strength, they must live the truth which God has given them. If the members of our churches disregard the light on this subject, they will reap the sure result in both spiritual and physical degeneracy. And the influence of these older church members will leaven those newly come to the faith. The Lord does not now work to bring many souls into the truth, because of the church members who have never been converted and those who were once converted but who have backslidden. What influence would these unconsecrated members have on new converts? Would they not make of no effect the God-given message which His people are to bear? {6T 370.3}

"The Lord does not now work to bring many souls into the truth . . ." Why?

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #176537
09/01/15 10:23 PM
09/01/15 10:23 PM
dedication  Online Content
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The wheat and tares

Notice wheat and tares are hard to tell apart --
We can't read the heart and pulling tares may result in pull out the wheat. So don't pull the tares.

BUT

1 Cor. 5

This presents a totally opposite picture.
There is no question that the person is out of step and walking in rebellion against God's truth. Yet the church members are "proud" of their tolerance. Paul is pretty forceful that disciplinary action be taken and the person be dismissed from church fellowship.



So scripture gives us both approaches -- and the conditions under which each approach is to be used.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #176538
09/02/15 01:17 AM
09/02/15 01:17 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Amen!

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #176558
09/02/15 09:07 PM
09/02/15 09:07 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
What statements?
I've tried to find, but could not locate, a comic with cookie crumbs on the table, and cookie crumbs on a little boy's face with the caption saying, "What cookies?".

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #176562
09/02/15 09:48 PM
09/02/15 09:48 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Amen!

Why do you say amen? Both are not referring to the same signs.

///

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #176572
09/03/15 02:58 PM
09/03/15 02:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
J: Jesus advised that the wheat and the tares grow until he sends his angels for the harvest. But I perceive that you wish to take that responsibility on yourself.

M: James, why do you think so?

K: Uh, could it be that James thinks you do from the statements you have made?

M: What statements?

K: I've tried to find, but could not locate . . .

I have never said I would like to separate the wheat and tares myself. That responsibility rests with Jesus.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: James Peterson] #176573
09/03/15 03:00 PM
09/03/15 03:00 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
M: Amen!

J: Why do you say amen? Both are not referring to the same signs.

Signs? What do you mean?

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #176574
09/03/15 03:41 PM
09/03/15 03:41 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Signs? What do you mean?

Signs for judgment.

In the parable of the wheat and tares, the sower sows GOOD SEED IN HIS FIELD. First, it is HIS field and secondly, he sows only GOOD seed: i.e. fruitful seed. Tares do not bear any fruit. What Jesus told his servants in effect was this, "Don't throw anyone out merely because they are pew-warmers, reluctant to speak, is not active among the members, has a low profile ...." The sign of a tare is one who is not actively engaged in multiplying while others are.

You can think of a tare as, for example, an SDA who has lost faith in EGW or the direction of the denomination. He does not actively support the evangelistic ministry of his congregation. From a denominational perspective, he is obviously a fruitless tare distinct from the fruitful wheat. Jesus says not to dis-fellowship such a one, lest others become discouraged by your actions and leave as well. A good example of this is Desmond Ford. They uprooted him and he took with him a "thousand" others, and the denomination fell into the trap of creating a creed for themselves, walling themselves into an ivory tower.

THIS IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM 1 CORINTHIANS 5.

There Paul is advising the congregation rightly to dis-fellowship the immoral, when the signs of abominable behaviour are blatantly obvious. For example, the Vatican was in order in their judgment against their own priests convicted of pedophilia.

///

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Elle] #176578
09/03/15 07:14 PM
09/03/15 07:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Okay. Good point. I believe time-serving members and leaders who are "unprofitable servants" should not be disfellowshipped for being merely "cumberers" of the ground. However, members and leaders who reject fundamental SDA beliefs and actively work to persuade other SDA to join them should be disciplined subject to disfellowshipment.

Re: Should the Body Discipline Members for disagreeing on 28FB [Re: Mountain Man] #176581
09/03/15 07:46 PM
09/03/15 07:46 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
I have never said I would like to separate the wheat and tares myself. That responsibility rests with Jesus.
What cookies.

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