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Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Rick H] #175830
08/03/15 11:10 AM
08/03/15 11:10 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Elle, I am sorry you believe certain FB are "shoddy and superficial". In so saying it implies you are right and the pioneers are wrong - including the SOP. Yes, truth is progressive. However, new light does not undermine old light.

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Alchemy] #175844
08/03/15 01:19 PM
08/03/15 01:19 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
You are wrong on all three points.


Possibly. However, your response did nothing to demonstrate that, so they stand.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: JAK] #175866
08/04/15 12:02 PM
08/04/15 12:02 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: JAK
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
You are wrong on all three points.


Possibly. However, your response did nothing to demonstrate that, so they stand.


Since you never substantiated your three points, no, they don't stand.

It is true what I said about the 3 angels messages.

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Alchemy] #175869
08/04/15 12:29 PM
08/04/15 12:29 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Good point.
However:
Originally Posted By: MM
"The only believers who will be translated alive when Jesus arrives are those believers who embrace the 3AM as proclaimed by faithful SDA believers.

A) Under the category of "This idea has not Biblical support whatsoever:
1) Scripture does not specify conditions for "[being] translated alive"
2) SDA's are never mentioned in Scripture.
3) "the 3AM as proclaimed by faithful SDA believers" is not a Scriptural concept and is not specified as a qualifying condition for any action or event.
4) By what criteria and on who's judgement is one to determine who is a "faithful SDA" and who is not?

B) Under the category of "This idea is elitist, arrogant, and just plain stupid:

This is my opinion, and as such cannot be argued against.

C) Under the category of "This idea demonstrates an alarming lack of understanding of God and the mission of Christ to the world:

Again, this is my opinion and as such cannot be argued against.

So, YES, my points stand.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Rick H] #175872
08/04/15 01:25 PM
08/04/15 01:25 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Quote:
4) By what criteria and on who's judgement is one to determine who is a "faithful SDA" and who is not?
Who? Quite simple, actually. The same who determines whether someone is in violation of the 28 +/- FB, reading into them things not stated. MM, of course.

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Elle] #175873
08/04/15 01:27 PM
08/04/15 01:27 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Elle
Also SDAs based their interpretaion on a severely mistranslation of Lev 16 where 4 errors are found in the text when comparing to the source text.
What two translation texts are you comparing?

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: kland] #175874
08/04/15 02:58 PM
08/04/15 02:58 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
Who? Quite simple, actually. The same who determines whether someone is in violation of the 28 +/- FB, reading into them things not stated. MM, of course.


Touche

ROFLMAO ROFL ROFL


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: JAK] #175885
08/05/15 11:54 AM
08/05/15 11:54 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: JAK
Good point.
However:
Originally Posted By: MM
"The only believers who will be translated alive when Jesus arrives are those believers who embrace the 3AM as proclaimed by faithful SDA believers.

A) Under the category of "This idea has not Biblical support whatsoever:
1) Scripture does not specify conditions for "[being] translated alive"
2) SDA's are never mentioned in Scripture.
3) "the 3AM as proclaimed by faithful SDA believers" is not a Scriptural concept and is not specified as a qualifying condition for any action or event.
4) By what criteria and on who's judgement is one to determine who is a "faithful SDA" and who is not?

B) Under the category of "This idea is elitist, arrogant, and just plain stupid:

This is my opinion, and as such cannot be argued against.

C) Under the category of "This idea demonstrates an alarming lack of understanding of God and the mission of Christ to the world:

Again, this is my opinion and as such cannot be argued against.

So, YES, my points stand.



On your last two points, it is true you have a right to your opinion, but, that doesn't make your opinion right! In this case, you opinions are both wrong.

Mostly because the Gospel message of the everlasting Gospel, the Law of God and the Judgment taking place in Heaven all directly impact the salvation of every living soul on earth. Except Jesus, of course.

As far as A) is concerned; It is true SDA or Seventh-day Adventist is not mentioned directly in the Bible, the messages the Bible places such importance on are mentioned, and these are taught and proclaimed by Seventh-day Adventists. Since we are thought inspired, this is how we know Seventh-day Adventists will be carrying these messages, namely the three angels messages.

Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: Alchemy] #175886
08/05/15 12:49 PM
08/05/15 12:49 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
In this case, you opinions are both wrong.

Which is your opinion.
Which is wrong.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Why is rejection of the SOP happening? [Re: JAK] #175902
08/06/15 11:56 AM
08/06/15 11:56 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,205
Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: JAK
Good point.
However:
Originally Posted By: MM
"The only believers who will be translated alive when Jesus arrives are those believers who embrace the 3AM as proclaimed by faithful SDA believers.

A) Under the category of "This idea has not Biblical support whatsoever:
1) Scripture does not specify conditions for "[being] translated alive"
2) SDA's are never mentioned in Scripture.
3) "the 3AM as proclaimed by faithful SDA believers" is not a Scriptural concept and is not specified as a qualifying condition for any action or event.
4) By what criteria and on who's judgement is one to determine who is a "faithful SDA" and who is not?

B) Under the category of "This idea is elitist, arrogant, and just plain stupid:

This is my opinion, and as such cannot be argued against.

C) Under the category of "This idea demonstrates an alarming lack of understanding of God and the mission of Christ to the world:

Again, this is my opinion and as such cannot be argued against.

So, YES, my points stand.




A)There is biblical support for MM's statement:

1)To be "translated alive", one would firstly, have to be alive at the coming of Christ (unless you are a proponent of the Secret Rapture?), secondly, one must be saved (forgiven/justified) by faith in Christ and obedient to all Ten Commandments (sanctified) by faith in Christ.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
Revelation 14:12


2) I am aware of only one denomination (SDA) that (in principal, if not always in practise) teaches the observance of all Ten Commandments and demonstrably, possesses the Spirit of Prophecy.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
Revelation 12:17

"...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Revelation 19:10


3) "the 3AM as proclaimed by faithful SDA believers": the key here is "as proclaimed by..." Not necessarily belonging to the SDA denomination, rather delivering the same message. It is the message that is primary here, not the messenger. I do not claim that the entire SDA denomination is, or will be, proclaiming the 3AM, or indeed that only bonafide SDA members are doing so; however, those who are "faithful (to Christ) SDA believers" are doing so.

The job description of a Prophet is not merely one who predicts future events, but also, and more importantly, he or she is one who speaks to the people on behalf of God. Since the Spirit of prophesy is possessed by and actively engaged in proclaiming the 3AM, through numerous "faithful" SDA members, this is in fact a "scriptural concept" and accepting the 3AM is a "qualifying condition" for salvation after the Mark of the Beast is instituted. Without the third Angel's Message, no warning concerning the Mark would be given:

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
Revelation 14:9-12


4) The "criteria" of the Bible and the judgement of God, "determine who is a 'faithful SDA' and who is not?" The criteria is: do they "keep (all) the commandments of God"? The judgement of God gazes into the heart to determine if the fruit of "Faith" truely motivates and dwells therein.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
Revelation 14:12




B) JAK said: "This idea is elitist, arrogant, and just plain stupid"


At first glance, Matthew 7 seems quite exclusive. Does this mean your opinion is that Jesus is "elitist" and "arrogant"?

"Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Matthew 7:14


Calling a brother's sincerely held belief, "just plain stupid" does not seem to manifest the Spirit of God?

"...and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, (vain, empty, worthless) shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:22




C) Mountain Man's idea demonstrates an abundance of understanding of God and the mission of Christ to the world!

That is my opinion.




"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
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