China enters the war against ISIS
Sep 27, 2015

By Stephen Jones

"Russia’s entry into the conflict against ISIS is now being backed overtly by China, which is sending its first naval vessel to Syria through the Suez Canal.

http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/chinese-military-personnel-expected-to-arrive-in-syria/


Meanwhile, last Friday (September 25, 2015), French jets began bombing ISIS targets, including a munitions facility.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/au...ticle-1.1945885


It is now clear that the US government has lost control of the situation in Syria. The new coalition of France, Germany, and Russia, with support from China, will no doubt see an avalanche of support from other nations, whose mission will be to defeat ISIS and to leave President Assad in power. Meanwhile, US-backed rebels in Syria, whether they go by the name ISIS or not, are now assured of losing the civil war. They will have to retreat into the shadows and fight on as common terrorists.

This reminds me a lot of the situation last March, when over 50 nations rushed to join the AIIB after the UK broke ranks with the US and decided to join the Chinese-led bank as founding members. This was a major financial defeat for the US government, and now the US is experiencing a major diplomatic defeat involving the military.

Overall, these defeats show how the US government is losing its leadership position in the world. While some politicians want to “make America great again,” not many of them want to do so by doing good, but rather by putting fear back into national leaders from around the world. The problem is that as time has passed, the US government has used its position of leadership to become what is known as the “bully nation.”

http://alspolitics1.blogspot.com/2005/05/is-america-worlds-bully.html

America was not always such a bully. We used to defend the weak and help the poor. In much of the last century, while the Soviet Union persecuted its dissenters, America took them in and protected them from tyranny. Now that the Soviet Union has been replaced by a new nation—Russia—it is the other way around, as proven by the case of Edward Snowden and any other whistleblower who exposes the embarrassing sins of the US government. Secrecy is the shroud of sin, and sin does not like exposure. Threat of exposure prevents sin from continuing behind the closed doors of secret government. Exposure puts the fear of God into political sinners.

Here is an article that speaks of the “bully nation.”

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/21549-bully-nation



Bullying is the means through which the corporate empires were built. Carnegie and Rockefeller intimidated and threatened their rival capitalists to cede them an ever-larger share of the market. They brought in Pinkerton goons to beat striking workers into submission. Workers were forced to either sign "yellow dog" contracts and pledge not to join unions, or be thrown into the street. Similar bullying practices continue today. Corporations warn entire communities they will shut down factories and undermine the local economy if they do not accept low wages and minimal regulations. Banks entice consumers to borrow through predatory loans and then raise interest rates and threaten foreclosure. The corporations are clear they have the power and will not tolerate challenges from weaklings who fail to know their place.

Bullying enhances the ideology that the strong are strong and the weak are weak, and each deserves to be where they are…. As long as the United States embraces militarism and aggressive capitalism, systemic bullying and all its impacts - abroad and at home - will persist as a major crisis.

Revelation 17:16-18 speaks of the false bride, known as the “harlot,” saying,

16 And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire…. 18 And the woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.

In other words, the very “horns” (governmental powers) who have supported the Babylonian Bully-Harlot will turn against her and will “eat her flesh.” This metaphor is designed to point out that the story of Jezebel’s death was prophetic of what is happening today. 2 Kings 9:10 says, “And the dogs shall eat Jezebel in the territory of Jezreel, and none shall bury her.” It was fulfilled in 2 Kings 9:35, 36. This graphic description prophesies of the Jezebel system that will soon be overthrown by her own “dogs” (nations). We are witnessing this even now in slow motion.

- See more at: http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.net/d...h.4TeoihOG.dpuf

Elle said:

"It's because my understanding is the 2nd beast of Revelation 13 is the Banking Cartel that constitute some Jewish-Zionist families which the Rothschild being the most prominent of them all. The Rothschilds sign the "Holy Alliance" with the RCC Church in 1815 shortly after the Pope's fatal wound and became the Church banks. I have a few posts about it in this discussion and other discussions in this forum, but this article does give a better explanation of it."


Then, you do not believe that the Second Beast is the USA united with the apostate Protestant churches in a union of church and state?

Forgive me if you have already discussed this elsewhere. It's a large site and I am still fairly new here.

Elle said:

"Another thing worth noting....if you do the research on Loyola, the founder of the Jesuit, you will find that he was actually a Marranos (spanish name for "pig") that were force to convert into Christianity or leave Spain or die. They "converted" but in secrete they practiced Judaism. Basicaly the Jesuit infiltrated the RCC Church as they infiltrated all other denomination including the the Seventh-Day Adventist Church as documented by James Arrabito."

I am familiar with the twisted history of Loyola. The Jesuit manipulations are remarkable, to put it mildly!

James Arrabito opened a lot of eyes. It is sad that he died so young in an "accident". He had much more to say, I'm sure.

Elle said:

"The world already cannot buy or sell without the mark of the beastby which fiat money is the banking cartel's mark."


Ah, money from nowhere is truely "miraculous"! LOL


You believe the banking cartel to be the Second Beast and fiat money to be its mark, does this mean you do not believe the following statement?

"What then is the change of the Sabbath, but the sign, or mark, of the authority of the Roman Church—“the mark of the beast”?" – {GC 448.1}

Yes I understand this is a large forum and myself have a hard time to re-locate my own posts.



I don't see in the current or past events the "apostate Protestant" in the lead. Obama is not even a Christian nor does most US Congress are. Some put the "Christian" front like the Bush family did. But underneath they are Zionist serving its agenda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Organization_of_America

For sure they got the Christians to support the zionist movement, but to me its not clearly a "apostate protestant" body supporting the RCC agenda. What I see is the US, the Congress and the RCC supporting the Zionist and Israel's agenda. This is what the current events and history is showing. Let's keep in mind that history is the fulfillment of prophecies. So if history clashes with our interpretation, then we need to revise our interpretation and go back to scriptures.

Why is the Lord making the world support a false Zionist movement at the end of time? This is an important element in scriptures to understand prophecies. It's not possibe to describe this in one post and would take time to study closely. However to say it briefly so anyone interested could look into it ... Basically it started when Jacob stole or obtain the blessing and the birthright deceitfully and unlawfully from Esau. Esau was the firstborn. According to the the Lord law the birthright could not be taken away from him unless he proved himself unworthy of it. What Jacob did was unlawful yet it was still in the Lord's plan.

Isaac did prophecied in the curse of Esau (Gen 27:39,40) that he(Esau) would regain his freedom and ability to "trample or rule" over others. See the Hebrew definition of rewd in Gen 27:40.

So this prophecy was fulfilled in 1917 when the land of Israel(which was the inheritance of the birthright) was "given" to the Rothschild in the Balfour declaration.

What does the Rothschild family or their "Zionist interest" have to do with the Esau-Edom nation? To answer this question and to see the link, we need to go back in time to seek what happened to the nation of Edom(Esau) who occupied the land in Mt Seir. In 126 BC the nation of Judah regain its independence by concquering Greece at the Macaabee conquest. During that conquest they also forced the nation of Edom(Esau) to convert into Judaism. The Greek word for Edom is Idumea. From that point of history the nation of Edom(Esau) dissappear and were fully absorbe into the nation of Judah. Jewish historian wrote extensively about this conquest incuding Josephus who wrote in in his Antiquities of the Jews, XIII, ix, 1 :



Also we read in The Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition under " Edom," affirms this by saying,



The link is this... the nation of Judah or the Jews of today are half Edomite(Idumeans in Greek which are Esau's descendance). So the nation of Judah being half Edomites are fulfilling the prophecies of Esau - Edom in scriptures. So the Lord allowed them (the Edomites-Judah) to regain the land of Israel to make right the wrong that Jacob created by unlawfully obtaining the birthright. The Lord regave the birthright to Esau-Edom so they can prove themself worthy(or not) of the birithight. If they prove themself unworthy(which they did as we all can witness they have ruled by the sword and love to "eat blood" which was unlawful), then the birthright will be legally taken from "Esau" and given to the "Saints of the Most High". Basically that's what I understand is going on.

To have an indept study of this Esau element of scripture, I recommend to read "the Struggle for the Birthright".

I agree. Money is not "miraculous" or "evil". We all use the “Babylonians” money as we have no choice. However this does not mean we have their mark written on our forehead and hands if we do not worship money. My understanding of that text is those that worship money has the mark of the 2nd beast because “money is the root of all evil”. (1Tim 6:10) and they will practice “lawlessness” to obtain it or in their manner of using it.



#1. Can I find this in the Bible? There's a discussion here that took place about 7 years ago that was concluded that we cannot prove from the Blble that Sunday is the mark of the beast.

#2. This conclusion comes from thinking the 2nd beast of Rev 13 is still the Pope while we also say it is the “apostate Protestant” that supports the Pope – so we believe that the Pope is still in power while scriptures and history says the Pope received a mortal wound but it was healed as history shows the Pope was re-instated by Napolean(who was a Masson) because he needed the Pope to crown him Emperor. And in 1815 we see the 2nd beast(the Rothschild) making an alliance with the 1st beast(the Pope) with the Holy Alliance fulfilling the 2nd half of Rev 13. BTW…being "healed" doesn't mean that the RCC has the same power it had before. History doesn’t show that the RCC has regained its power it had once before.

So really we(SDAs) say that the Pope has still (or some say – will regain) ultimate power thinking that the Pope is still in power manipulating the “apostate protestant”. Personally I see this interpretation as inconsistent with other revelation from Daniel and history that shows that every beast that came into power was a total different power or beast. Thinking that the Pope (or the RCC) is the 1st and remaining in power manipulating the 2nd beast of Rev 13 is a false interpretation of scriptures and not an honest reflection of history which is the real fulfillment of prophecies.

#3. With all honesty, I think no one of us (SDAs) should or can quote any of EGW's writings because our Church failed to make a cleanup(cannonize) her writings. All the EGW writings we have we do not know which texts comes straight from her pen. She had a large team of people working and writing for her that we are told that Ellen has approved. Plus some of EGW writings has been changed here and there even after her death and we are told that she had approved or would approve of it by the white estate. I have known an SDA and heard of others who goes to the extend to not trust any EGW's writtings dating after 1881 -- when James White died and ceased to oversee her writtings.

I do believe the Lord spoke to Ellen, however until our Church does the work needed to clean up and tell us what actually came from the pen of Ellen…’till then I only have the Holy Scriptures and the guidance of the the Holy Spirit to rely on.

So wouldn't that follow what he said, USA is the state, and apostate Protestant churches is the church in a union of church and state?

For otherwise, what you are implying, it would be a union of church and church.

Elle, I believe we must trust that God has preserved the integrity of the Spirit of Prophesy. If we begin to doubt the veracity of the messages the Lord has gifted the Church with, then this same line of logic will lead us to question the Bible itself! After all it is far older and has passed through far more hands than the SOP writings.

Questioning God's power to preserve the Word that He has once delivered to us has led more than one denomination, and I'm afraid even some Seventh Day Adventists to disaster. With no firm foundation, we are left blind and bound to fall into a pit...

The quote below is from 1883, two years after your deadline; however, these words were not written behind closed doors, in some private study. Sister White spoke these words in a sermon in front of the General Conference. That is a rather large number of respectable eyewitnesses. I believe them to be accurate:

"When you find men questioning the testimonies, finding fault with them, and seeking to draw away the people from their influence, be assured that God is not at work through them. It is another spirit..."

1SM 45.1 - From a sermon at the General Conference of 1883

I would add that for many years, I was skeptical of the prophetic gift attributed to Ellen White. In the final analysis, after more years of study, I could not point to a single instance of disagreement between the SOP and the Bible. I now have no doubt that she was a prophetess of God and that her writings have been preserved by divine care as surely as has been the Bible itself.


Thank you for your most articulate and detailed answers to my questions.
I'm afraid I cannot subscribe to the majority of the views expressed.
I have heard variations of the theory of Jewish machinations before. While there may be some truth to it, the role assigned to them in prophetic fulfillment does not line up with Scripture or the SOP.

Your thoughts on fiat currency as the Mark of the Beast are fascinating.
Although, the love of money is certainly a major contributing factor,
it is far to general to fit. The Mark of the Beast is a specific item.
The Sabbath, encapsulating God's identity and authority, taken together with
the Little Horn of Daniel, intent on changing "times and laws", combine with numerous
other verses to make a perfect fit.

In point 2) you say that Adventists think "the 2nd beast of Rev 13 is still the Pope while we also say it is the “apostate Protestant” that supports the Pope". I don't recall ever hearing that doctrine? The First and Second Beasts are clearly distinct powers.
Verses 12 and 15 of Revelation chapter 13 show the Second Beast forcing the world to worship the First Beast and his image:

12 "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

15"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."


Taken in context with 12 and 15, verse 17 clearly show's the Second Beast enforcing the mark of the First Beast:

16"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."


In point 2) you refer to Rothschild as the Second Beast, since a beast in prophesy represents a nation, I fail to see how a single person or group of people, no matter how wealthy, fits? A nation must occupy a specific geographic location, as the Papacy occupies Vatican City and the USA occupies central North America.

USA is currently used by the Zionist(2nd beast). Neither are the church. The Church (the RCC and Protestants) are another seperate entity also used by the 2nd beast of Rev 13. Can we say that the Zionist(or shaddow government) are the state since they are the ones that calls the shots???

The fear of the union of State and Church comes from the 1260 years of the RCC persecusion and a faulty interpretation of Rev 13 thinking the RCC will rule again and that the second beast is "apostate Protestant" or the USA that will put the RCC in power. But there was a union of the RCC(the 1st beast of Rev 13) with the Rothschid (the 2nd beast that came out of the earth) at the Holy Alliance in 1815 after the Pope's deadly wound.

Personally I foresee the union of state and Church in the Kingdom of God after the destruction of Babylon. It was so in the Type of the law in the days the Israelites had no kings and was ruled by the Priesthood.