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Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: kland] #176555
09/02/15 04:30 PM
09/02/15 04:30 PM
APL  Offline
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Posts: 6,368
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This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Ephesians 4:18; Proverbs 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. {DA 764.1}

At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this.
Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe. {DA 764.2}

But not so when the great controversy shall be ended. Then, the plan of redemption having been completed, the character of God is revealed to all created intelligences. The precepts of His law are seen to be perfect and immutable. Then sin has made manifest its nature, Satan his character. Then the extermination of sin will vindicate God's love and establish His honor before a universe of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law.
{DA 764.3}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: Mountain Man] #176557
09/02/15 09:01 PM
09/02/15 09:01 PM
K
kland  Offline OP
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Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: kland
If Iran were to be allowed to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say they would be making use of the same destructive power as Japan did by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction?

Kland, it doesn't matter what the Iranians do or don't do with nuclear material. What matters is what Jesus does or doesn't do about it. Even if Iran owned all the weaponized nuclear material in the world, it wouldn't matter because Jesus is in control. If Iran were to launch nuclear bombs, whether or not they explode and inflict casualties is up to Jesus. He can intervene and prevent them from causing harm. Or, He can choose to allow them to spread death far and wide. The responsibility rests with Jesus - not Iran, not evil angels.
Sigh.

Sigh.......


Double Sigh!


You seem to have a propensity of answering questions not asked. Even when asked again and again, you answer some other question.


Quote:
Kland, it doesn't matter what the Iranians do or don't do
I didn't ask what matters.

Quote:
whether or not they explode and inflict casualties is up to Jesus.
I didn't ask whether it would inflict casualties.
I didn't ask if it was up to Jesus.

Quote:
He can intervene and prevent
I didn't ask if Jesus could intervene or not.

Quote:
The responsibility rests with Jesus - not Iran, not evil angels.
I didn't ask where the responsibility rests.

What I did ask was:
If Iran were to be allowed to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say they would be making use of the same destructive power as Japan did by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction?

But something tells me you are wishing to avoid answering the question I ask and choosing to answer what is not asked. It IS indeed very tedious in trying to converse with you when you don't respond to what is asked.

So let me try to meet you where you are:

If Jesus were to cause the Iranians to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say

Jesus would be making use of the same destructive power as

Jesus did when He caused Japan by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction?


Do you understand the question? Is it the same destructive power in both instances?

Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: kland] #176570
09/03/15 02:42 PM
09/03/15 02:42 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
If Iran were to be allowed to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say they would be making use of the same destructive power as Japan did by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction? Do you understand the question? Is it the same destructive power in both instances?

I don't know enough about nuclear material to answer your question. Is nuclear material the same in power plants and bombs blasts? Why do you ask?

Originally Posted By: kland
If Jesus were to cause the Iranians to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say Jesus would be making use of the same destructive power as Jesus did when He caused Japan by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction?

Same answer as above.

Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: kland] #176571
09/03/15 02:47 PM
09/03/15 02:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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Kland, why did Fukushima happen? And, why didn't Jesus intervene and prevent it?

Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: kland] #176577
09/03/15 04:42 PM
09/03/15 04:42 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Imported from elsewhere:

Originally Posted By: kland
M: APL, have you earned the right to preach your view of justice and punishment? You believe Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children.

K: And you think Jesus tortures and kill innocent women and children?

No, I do not. Thank you for asking (instead of assuming).

Originally Posted By: kland
Tell us, which fits in with our fundamental beliefs better, which explains the great controversy better: Evil men and evil angels torturing innocent women and children or Jesus torturing innocent women and children?

I believe APL's view explains it best, namely, Jesus withdraws His protection and permits evil men and evil angels to torture and kill innocent women and children.

Originally Posted By: kland
M: So, as soon as Jesus feels death, disease, and destruction are in order - He turns it over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order.

K: I know of no where that APL has said that Jesus turns things over to evil men and evil angels to fill the order. Could you show us?

He rightly bases his idea on passages like the following:

Quote:
We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}

Men cannot with impunity reject the warning which God in mercy sends them. A message was sent from heaven to the world in Noah's day, and their salvation depended upon the manner in which they treated that message. Because they rejected the warning, the Spirit of God was withdrawn from the sinful race, and they perished in the waters of the Flood. In the time of Abraham, mercy ceased to plead with the guilty inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot with his wife and two daughters were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven. So in the days of Christ. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation: "Your house is left unto you desolate." Matthew 23:38. Looking down to the last days, the same Infinite Power declares, concerning those who "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved": "For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12. As they reject the teachings of His word, God withdraws His Spirit and leaves them to the deceptions which they love. {GC 431.1}

APL believes Jesus has never acted in a violent way. In so saying, he means things like the Flood, the fire that killed Sodom, the fire that killed Nadab and Abihu, the fire that killed the soldiers sent to apprehend Elisha, the demise of Ananias and Sapphira, etc happened when Jesus withdrew His protection and permitted evil angels to do it. Things like that need to happen, from time to time, it's just that Jesus leaves it up to evil men and evil angels to do it. Otherwise, it wouldn't happen.

Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: Mountain Man] #176580
09/03/15 07:39 PM
09/03/15 07:39 PM
K
kland  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: kland
If Iran were to be allowed to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say they would be making use of the same destructive power as Japan did by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction? Do you understand the question? Is it the same destructive power in both instances?

I don't know enough about nuclear material to answer your question. Is nuclear material the same in power plants and bombs blasts? Why do you ask?

Maybe that's why you do not answer? Let's assume a general definition of nuclear power: Fission. Not a certain type of fission. Not a certain type of fission from a certain type of element. Just fission in general of anything.

(And by the way, Iran's premise is they need the centrifuges for producing fuel to fuel nuclear power plants. Meaning, the material inspectors would be inspecting for would not be distinguishable regarding what the intended result was.

And by the way, we are not talking about the explosion, but the long term destructive power that is killing the wildlife which is being construed as global warming.

And by the way, consider the irony of Japan being bombed with nuclear bombs leading to long term destructive power hurting wildlife and people and now it's from their own power plants.
)


Using fission in general of any material:

So now, can you answer the question?

If Jesus were to cause the Iranians to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say Jesus would be making use of the same destructive power as Jesus did when He caused Japan by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction?

Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: Mountain Man] #176590
09/04/15 07:26 AM
09/04/15 07:26 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,205
Alberta, Canada
Excellent quote Mountain Man!

"Men cannot with impunity reject the warning which God in mercy sends them. A message was sent from heaven to the world in Noah's day, and their salvation depended upon the manner in which they treated that message. Because they rejected the warning, the Spirit of God was withdrawn from the sinful race, and they perished in the waters of the Flood." G.C. 431.1


The repercussions of humanities rejection of God's Spirit had not completely occurred to me. In effect, Probation ended for those "men of renown". With their long years of experience, potent intellects and sheer physical attributes, the evil wrought in that arrogant generation must have been staggering.

I wonder, as the rain began to fall, did they sit around debating whether it was caused by God, or Satan, or perhaps by one of their own perversions of the Earth's natural forces?

Brothers and Sisters, it's time to get on the boat!

"But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:37


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: kland] #176629
09/05/15 02:54 PM
09/05/15 02:54 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Prodigal One, thank you for sharing. Amen!

Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: kland] #176631
09/05/15 03:16 PM
09/05/15 03:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: kland
M: Kland, why did Fukushima happen? And, why didn't Jesus intervene and prevent it?

K: If Iran were to be allowed to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say they would be making use of the same destructive power as Japan did by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction? Do you understand the question? Is it the same destructive power in both instances?

M: I don't know enough about nuclear material to answer your question. Is nuclear material the same in power plants and bombs blasts? Why do you ask?

K: If Jesus were to cause the Iranians to use centrifuges for producing nuclear bombs and missiles, would you say Jesus would be making use of the same destructive power as Jesus did when He caused Japan by failing to have a backup plan for their nuclear reactors resulting in all kinds of death and destruction?

Again, why did Fukushima happen? And, why didn't Jesus intervene and prevent it? You haven't answered these questions. Do you think Jesus caused Fukushima to happen? Or, do you think He allowed it to happen by choosing not to intervene and prevent it? Personally, I do not believe Jesus caused Fukushima to happen. I believe He allowed it to happen by not intervening and preventing it.

You asked, "If Jesus were to cause the Iranians to . . . ." Do you think Jesus causes people and nations to do things? Or, do you believe He respects freewill? Personally, I do not believe Jesus causes people and nations to do things.

You asked, ". . . would you say Jesus would be making use of . . . ." I do not believe Jesus makes use of things. Instead, I believe He permits things to happen by not intervening and preventing them. But more than this, He works to ensure the things He permits do not exceed the limits He sets. He manages them.

You asked, ". . . as Jesus did when He caused Japan . . . ." Again, Jesus does not cause people or nations to do things.

Re: Global Warming Farce [Re: ProdigalOne] #176701
09/07/15 05:27 PM
09/07/15 05:27 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,705
Canada
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne

I wonder, as the rain began to fall, did they sit around debating whether it was caused by God, or Satan, or perhaps by one of their own perversions of the Earth's natural forces?

Brothers and Sisters, it's time to get on the boat!

"But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:37





Amen!
Amen!
Amen!

The world of sin is on the edge of destruction.
There is salvation and hope ONLY in Christ.

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